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Great post Stutts. That's one criticism you don't read about most Irish teams, being too technical! Certainly a sense of greater optimism about the future of Irish football and most welcome. Also, class response from Corcoran regarding the sending off, typical Meathman!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-36911045.html
Tets, those stills are meaningless. The real time video shows Corcoran both started behind the line and made two steps before the kick was taken. The Dutch keeper did neither.
The idea that "his foot was still on the line" is irrelevant
While Corcoran moved around alright his movement was mostly lateral which is allowed.
It's done and dusted now and goes into the same folder as Henry but a bit nearer the back of it...:D
The rule quoted says the keeper may not move his feet - so no lateral movement allowed under that wording.
Anyway, I can't see how, having watched the video, you can argue it was mostly lateral. It wasn't.
I should add that this belongs nowhere near the Henry incident. The only disgrace here is that coaching staff and player didn't know the rules of the game.
I agree it's a harsh rule, and probably even illogical too, as noted by others. But it's the rule. Filing it alongside blatant cheating, giving out about the ref, or bringing in things that have nothing to do with the rule unfortunately only serve to reflect badly on the complainants.
Corcoran calls card "cruel but correct"
Fair dues to him
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/963797/
If it was me, i would have given him a verbal warning and made the Dutch lad take it again, being aware that the goalie is about 16. However, the ref on paper made 100% the right call i guess.
The response from corcoran tells me a lot about him. The difference between lads making it is often minimal and that difference is often the young player's drive and personality - even more nowadays with lads on crazy money for being on a professional contract. Fair play to him.
It will be interesting to see if this is a very talented batch or if it is the sign of things clicking together for us. The word is that the ddsl lads were very competitive in the Friendship cup and St Kevin's are always very good against the giants of european football when they play them.
For which you would probably have been reported by the referee's assessor, and maybe not given any such profile match again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
I think Emmett Malone sums it up well today in the IT....
"It was harsh on Ireland but the Dutch go on and good luck to them. There have, despite suggestions to the contrary, been greater injustices in the history of the game than the manner of the Irish team’s exit the other night. Yet when the dust settles and the tournament is being reviewed, the incident will hopefully be recognised as a slightly shameful way to treat a 16-year-old doing his best to represent his country.
It would not be of much consolation to Corcoran but the rule should be changed again to ensure he is the only one to suffer that fate."
Let's see how it's enforced in the WC.
Indo reporting that both Irish and Dutch manager said that before the penalties, the ref warned about a yellow card being the punishment (for saved penalties at least).
Tbh, the bit about getting a yellow only for saved (and missed?) penalties is the bit that bothers me most.
I can only speak as someone who has played the game and as a football fan. As i said in my post, he was well within his remit to do what he did. However, football is a game where common sense should be used, especially at that level.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
What did you think he did that was not common sense? Bear in mind, he had already warned both teams (or keepers at least) that they would be cautioned for doing what Corcoran went on to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
EDIT: I think much of the criticism levelled at this ref exists because other refs don't actually enforce the law properly.
If referees are permitted or encouraged to use "common sense", then you get a situation where, for example, Real Madrid aren't given an injury time penalty against Juventus because sure didn't Juve do so well to come back from 3-0 down.
Referees absolutely have to apply the letter of the law impartially. That's what they're there to do.
Does the letter of the law state that only if the penalty is saved that you get a caution?
http://theifab.com/laws/the-penalty-...nalty-kick-faqQuote:
Originally Posted by the 12 th man
Q3: Why must the goalkeeper who infringes the Law at a penalty kick and causes the kick to be retaken, be cautioned (YC)?
If the goalkeeper moves early (or infringes in any other way) this can directly affect the outcome of the penalty kick so introducing a caution(YC) is consistent with the increased punishment for the kicker and should deter goalkeepers from moving early etc.
https://i.imgur.com/FbR8dPK.png
So you can infringe the law providing you don't save it.
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by the 12 th man
A lot of sticklers that love their old rule book. The lad was only 16 ffs, and if the ref didnt give it no one would have complained.
As I said, lets see how often this rule is used the WCup. Will be interesting. Lets wait and see.:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by the 12 th man
In fairness that is daft .Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
Could I suggest some sort of bungee cord attached to each foot and to each adjacent post and perhaps to ameliorate this slight extra difficulty for the Goalkeeper the penalty spot be moved out an three extra yards ( a bit like a metre ) to 15 yards . .
I was at this game the other night, and it was farce lads. No one knew what was going on, all we could see was one very upset young kid out there, inconsolable he was, and for a long while too. However you argue the technicalities of it and if the ref was to the letter of the law correct etc, it just wasn't something that belonged in that game, that age group, in my opinion anyway and if it happened to an opponent, I honestly wouldn't want to see us win that way either. It reminded me of the line in the movie, if the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule ? And, yes, lets see if any high profile keeper gets pulled for this in the summer in Russia, I would doubt it.
The game itself, I was hoping for more to admire from us on the ground, ball retention wise after all I had heard about this side, but definitely a few lads out there who have a chance at the same time.
Reading around, it sounds like their keeper got two warnings for doing the same thing, while ours got a yellow straight off - is that accurate?
Shades of 2009 to the extent that it probably wouldn't happen to Germany, Spain, England.... but it happens to the plucky losers who nobody expects to go through.
It appears so - because the rule states a yellow is only issued if the penalty is not scored
Netherlands have advanced to the final, beating England....
6-5 on pens!
Any Shenanigans ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Well the penalty thing is very confusing, it is not clear to me what the rule are, the pdf posted does not seem to make
clear what rule apply to the keeper.
IN fact bizarrely it seems to more concern about the keeper who is not even facing the kick, why anyone would give a **** were
he stands is only something FIFA can explain.
Anyhow it seems our keeper start off behind the line, but rule he is suppose to be on it
It is hard to see if he was off his line from the video, ie were his feetQuote:
The referee shall confirm the following requirements
before the penalty kick is taken:
the goalkeeper is on the goal line between the goal
posts and facing the kicker
were.
Further to that the rules are unclear, FIFA rely on a picture were the keeper
has both feet grounded over the line, from what I can see our keeper has
one foot on the line.
So the rule are just not clear enough and the head of FIFA should be sent off (sacked and sued). The penalty kicks should be replayed.
Total disgrace.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-36911045.html
Not sure I agree with him on that going by what I saw, but the video is not too clear.Quote:
Ireland U17 goalkeeper Corcoran says red card decision was 'correct' in classy statement thanking fans for support
On the bright side we scored against the Netherlands which is more that England could manage.
One thing which is clear is FIFA need to clarify their rules and they can't do it with pictures as no other situation is every going to be a copy of the picture down to the last pixel.
Ireland should withdraw from this summers world cup finals in protest.
All the laws about penalties could probably do with a review - it seems that keepers are effectively rooted to the spot until the kick is taken, while takers are expressly allowed to shuffle/feint in their run-up (up to a certain point).
Even though penalty-takers can get booked (as Son did against Rochdale for 'illegal feinting which constitutes unsporting behaviour), surely the intention behind the shuffle/feint is to get the keeper to move/commit in some way, and if you're successful, you get the equivalent of a free hit - if you score, great, if you miss it gets retaken.
That's what I don't get. Surely foul play is foul play. You don't let off a player with a yellow card foul if the other team successfully plays advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
My interpretation is that the yellow card offence is causing them to miss the kick. If they don't miss, no offence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
The still shots comparing the Dutch keeper's position and Corcaran's are nonsensical. I'm not sure how anybody could look at the footage of both and think their movements were the same, or even similar. Like Corcaran himself, I think we need to take this one on the chin, even though I felt hard done by at the time without knowing what we do now.
I can't really get on board with this notion that making a sixteen year old cry, by making the right call, is lacking common sense either. We're talking about qualification for a European Championhship semi final here, not some local under-10's blitz. Who'd be a referee?!
Corcaran didn't get near the first two or three penalties. We were trailing in the shootout so I think he felt he needed to change tack to give himself a better chance, I certainly did anyway. Unfortunately in doing so he crossed the line of what is reasonably acceptable.
"Nobody knew what was going on"Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
I am a referee and to be honest I don't know what's going on. We refs were called into a recertification class about six weeks ago, in anticipation of the new season, and I for one (and I'm 20 years at it) could not believe what I was hearing in terms of changes to the laws of the game. I knew people would be dumfounded like they were during this game. Taking penalties and controlling the taking of penalties will be a completely new and I would think, extremely frustrating experience for all involved
Referee was nothing if not totally inconsistent in his application of the rules for the shootout. Corcoran appeared to have one foot on the Lin after viewing several replays. Whether that's legal or not I can't say. But the Dutch keeper, for an earlier kick, had both feet off the line and was off to the races
Have you read any of the thread up to this point where it's pointed out that practically none of that is relevant?
You even criticise the referee while acknowledging you don't know what the rules are! Surely you realise that can't make any sense?
I'm saying it tongue in cheek. I do 'know' the rules but it's very new and I haven't had much chance to put it to use (and find myself explaining it to bemused teams before kick off).Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Too many rules thrown at referees and players (and fans) in such a short space of time isn't good.
What also is not good (from a refs point of view) is the "well it's the rules of the game and if it's in the rules then you can't really complain" type of vibe.
If it's part of the rules why are players and supporters just discovering this particular rule in a major tournament (albeit U17).
FIFA need to put refs in a position to succeed and this is not the way to do it.
And while we're on the subject of rules, let me put the following scenario to you:
You are a center back. You are standing two yards outside your own penalty area when a team mate passes you the ball.
An attacker comes in and buries you with an illegal tackle.
The referee awards you a free kick.
You put the ball on the floor and motion your team mates upfield as you prepare to kick the ball long.
However your goalkeeper, standing behind you, persuades you to pass the ball to him.
You pass the ball backwards to the keeper, he slips and falls and the ball goes into the net.
Without consulting the rule book - what is the outcome of that situation?
If your outside the box and you've received the ball. Own goal.
Outside I think Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
As it's a foul, it would be a direct free-kick, so kicking it directly into your own goal still stands as a goal. However, if the infringement had been an offside, it would have been an indirect free-kick and it wouldn't count as you can't score directly from an indirect free-kick - I think the restart would be a corner to the attacking team but I'm not certain on that. Am I right?Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345