PCA League Proposal

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Members association in representing the views of their members only SHOCKER.

The idea of the vast majority of league clubs having anything of any value to bring to discussions with the FAI is insulting to the intelligence of anyone who follows the league. Poor clubs left without a voice my aras.

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So what clubs do you feel should have a vote and which shouldn't?

Have you ever been at a gathering of different clubs? My experience is that the vast majority of clubs have things they do very well and that the others can learn from. If we do need a league with at least two tiers (and I've never seen the UEFA rule that says this in fairness) then all clubs are needed to keep it working even at its current level. Focussing just on the top has been what has always been done and has got us nowhere, except a league of diminishing numbers. All very easy to take cheap shots and slag off clubs- but just keeping a senior club going is a hell of an undertaking and survival is an achievement in itself.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

So what clubs do you feel should have a vote and which shouldn't?

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Within the Premier Clubs Association??

Whoever they deem fit as members. Probably be some Premier Clubs..

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Have you ever been at a gathering of different clubs? My experience is that the vast majority of clubs have things they do very well and that the others can learn from. If we do need a league with at least two tiers (and I've never seen the UEFA rule that says this in fairness) then all clubs are needed to keep it working even at its current level. Focussing just on the top has been what has always been done and has got us nowhere, except a league of diminishing numbers. All very easy to take cheap shots and slag off clubs- but just keeping a senior club going is a hell of an undertaking and survival is an achievement in itself.

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This is all completely off the point.

If clubs want to talk to one another about the various daily minutiae of running clubs (which I'd be far too familiar with for my own good) then that's great. More power to them all.

That is completely different to a group advocating to the FAI. Which is what the PCA is.

And I'm not slagging anyone or taking any cheap shots.

What I will say is that you're either being disengenuous or naive.

Because I maintain that it's an insult to anyone's intelligence to suggest that the vast majority of league clubs have anything to offer in any discussions with the FAI.

Because in the vast majority of cases the opinion of the club will be whatever opinion the FAI have told them to have.

Because the vast majority of clubs are bought and paid for or over a barrell.

Is the Finn Harps delegate (and I'm only using harps as an example because your a harps man) going to go up to abbotstown and put it up to John and Fran?? He is in his hole.

You've a load of people on here howling about being excluded from something their clubs boards would run a thousand miles from.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Within the Premier Clubs Association??

Whoever they deem fit as members. Probably be some Premier Clubs..



This is all completely off the point.

If clubs want to talk to one another about the various daily minutiae of running clubs (which I'd be far too familiar with for my own good) then that's great. More power to them all.

That is completely different to a group advocating to the FAI. Which is what the PCA is.

And I'm not slagging anyone or taking any cheap shots.

What I will say is that you're either being disengenuous or naive.

Because I maintain that it's an insult to anyone's intelligence to suggest that the vast majority of league clubs have anything to offer in any discussions with the FAI.

Because in the vast majority of cases the opinion of the club will be whatever opinion the FAI have told them to have.

Because the vast majority of clubs are bought and paid for or over a barrell.

Is the Finn Harps delegate (and I'm only using harps as an example because your a harps man) going to go up to abbotstown and put it up to John and Fran?? He is in his hole.

You've a load of people on here howling about being excluded from something their clubs boards would run a thousand miles from.

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Sure that could be said for 99% of the LOI clubs. Bar pats and Derry who rejected the 5k, what clubs have realistically put up any sort of challenge to the FAI? Even limerick gave in eventually over the Barcelona friendly fiasco.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

in the vast majority of cases the opinion of the club will be whatever opinion the FAI have told them to have.

Because the vast majority of clubs are bought and paid for or over a barrell.

Is the Finn Harps delegate (and I'm only using harps as an example because your a harps man) going to go up to abbotstown and put it up to John and Fran?? He is in his hole.

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That's exactly the reason why their should be an alliance for all the league clubs - so somebody like Michael Cush can act as a representative of all the clubs. The clubs would all be in a much stronger position to negotiate with the FAI if they were all together and represented by a third party. That way, the FAI wouldn't be able to use their 'divide and conquer' strategies that they've been using for the last 10 yrs.

But unfortunately it looks like a handful of elite clubs (Dundalk, Cork, Rovers, Pats) are looking after their own self interest, to the detriment of all the other clubs and the league as a whole. Pity.

And when Fran did a ring around and told clubs back off and Mr. Cush was left standing with his **** in his hand??

Because that's what would happen in that scenario.

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Originally Posted by outspoken

Sure that could be said for 99% of the LOI clubs. Bar pats and Derry who rejected the 5k, what clubs have realistically put up any sort of challenge to the FAI? Even limerick gave in eventually over the Barcelona friendly fiasco.

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We went a hell of a lot further than anyone I have seen including Pats and Derry and we came out with a deal we were ok with in the end. The fact it could be said for 99% of clubs would back up LTIDs point anyway.

That is certainly a problem- clubs are terrified of the governing body. But that doesn't mean clubs don't have a contribution to make to policy related to the league. But unless the clubs can achieve some sort of unity that isn't going to change because we'll all hang separately. The FAI seem to be treating the PCA as if it represents the clubs, which is wrong because it clearly doesn't. It looks like the PCA has allowed itself to be used as a patsy here, so I would question whether there is any worth in that body unless seriously reformed.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

That is certainly a problem- clubs are terrified of the governing body. But that doesn't mean clubs don't have a contribution to make to policy related to the league. But unless the clubs can achieve some sort of unity that isn't going to change because we'll all hang separately. The FAI seem to be treating the PCA as if it represents the clubs, which is wrong because it clearly doesn't. It looks like the PCA has allowed itself to be used as a patsy here, so I would question whether there is any worth in that body unless seriously reformed.

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Totally agree it should be dissolved now in my opinion if the elite clubs want to push their own agendas let them do so themselves. The PCA does not represent the clubs at all.

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Originally Posted by Philosophizer

But unfortunately it looks like a handful of elite clubs (Dundalk, Cork, Rovers, Pats) are looking after their own self interest, to the detriment of all the other clubs and the league as a whole. Pity.

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Nothing new there then. Its always been that way.

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Originally Posted by Philosophizer

That's exactly the reason why their should be an alliance for all the league clubs - so somebody like Michael Cush can act as a representative of all the clubs. The clubs would all be in a much stronger position to negotiate with the FAI if they were all together and represented by a third party. That way, the FAI wouldn't be able to use their 'divide and conquer' strategies that they've been using for the last 10 yrs.

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The PCA should represent every League of Ireland club whether Premier or 1st Div.
I can't think of a single good reason why that shouldn't happen.

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Originally Posted by outspoken

Totally agree it should be dissolved now in my opinion if the elite clubs want to push their own agendas let them do so themselves. The PCA does not represent the clubs at all.

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The PCA should be restructured to represent all League of Ireland clubs.
If the PCA is dissolved then that will be it for the League of Ireland. Any chance of change will be gone for another 20 years & the LOI will lurch from one disaster to another like it always has.

Incidentally I don't think either Dundalk or Cork were in favour of the ten team league.

Cork City "voted" against it.

The only thing worse than a League of Ireland run by the FAI is one run by the clubs themselves.

So until a third party - probably commercial - organisation comes along with a big bag of money to lure the clubs away to a new structure, we're stuck with the clown show at Abbotstown.

I read somewhere it was Dundalk, Derry, Pat's and Shamrock Rovers that were for it.

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Originally Posted by MattB11

I read somewhere it was Dundalk, Derry, Pat's and Shamrock Rovers that were for it.

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I listened to an interview with Bohs president online on 98 fm and he confirmd their opposition to it. other Dublin clubs in top flight were asked by 98 fm what way they voted and they refused to give an answer so that sounds right. But why are Derry and Pats going for ten teamflight after them rejecting the €5k grant from the FAI?

The Bohs president's interview on 98FM is an interesting listen: http://www.98fm.com/podcasts/Now_Tha...l_Sport/56241/

The PCA have flat out refused to represent the First Division clubs but have graciously agreed to talk to them twice a year according to The Sun.

Does anyone know the full background to the PCA ?

- When was it set up ?
- Who made it happen, and what was the catalyst ?
- How does it run itself ?

It's right that clubs should have a voice vis-à-vis the FAI, but the PCA seems to be a very imperfect way of going about that.

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Originally Posted by Martinho II

I listened to an interview with Bohs president online on 98 fm and he confirmd their opposition to it. other Dublin clubs in top flight were asked by 98 fm what way they voted and they refused to give an answer so that sounds right. But why are Derry and Pats going for ten teamflight after them rejecting the €5k grant from the FAI?

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Exactly ,if you ask me Delaney has achieved what he set out to do.Split the clubs

The clubs were always split, the top teams don't see themselves as the same as the division 1 teams. If bohs were I'm their hay day they would vote in favour lickedy split

Just give us a playoff in Divison 1 FFS! Odds would be stacked against the 1st Div team anyway but would generate revenue throughout the season for sure by keeping fans interested.

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Originally Posted by SFC16

Just give us a playoff in Divison 1 FFS! Odds would be stacked against the 1st Div team anyway but would generate revenue throughout the season for sure by keeping fans interested.

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This is the bit that makes least sense, outside of Premier clubs protecting themselves. It wouldn't affect numbers and would at least somewhat mitigate the risk of the First Division being over halfway through the season.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Does anyone know the full background to the PCA ?

- When was it set up ?
- Who made it happen, and what was the catalyst ?
- How does it run itself ?

It's right that clubs should have a voice vis-à-vis the FAI, but the PCA seems to be a very imperfect way of going about that.

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* Bump *

Anyone able to shed any light on the PCA ? They just seemed to pop up out of nowhere.

Looks like it started in 2013.

A bit more detail here: http://www.the42.ie/john-o-sullivan-2091548-May2015/

Have to say that the PCA is a nonsense. So disappointing that the clubs can't manage to organise a fully representative voice. Our league will continue to be in trouble until that first step happens (and many steps after that too obviously).

The FAI have proven why the Clubs can never run the League themselves. How easily it was for them to divide and conquer, when it came to implementing the two 10 team divisions.

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Originally Posted by ger121

The FAI have proven why the Clubs can never run the League themselves. How easily it was for them to divide and conquer, when it came to implementing the two 10 team divisions.

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100% agree

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Originally Posted by Martinho II

But why are Derry and Pats going for ten teamflight after them rejecting the €5k grant from the FAI?

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We weren't given an explanation as to why Derry voted for it, but presumably it comes down to gate receipts. Really short-sighted, IMO. Crowds will fall off when you're playing the same teams (at least) four times a season.
It would also make it less likely that we'll have our derbies against Harps, which are always big crowds.

For me its pointless to have a 3 group regionalised first division but its the only way to unify the systems. I am afraid this will only happen the season that 2 first division club go bust at same time it might be this one, next year, the following or in three but it will happen.

The unification is a must if football wants to grow in the country, either summer or winter. You can get a month off in January or in August with both systems for the second division for holidays or pitches.

The FAI needs to look into alternatives to promote this unification, I personally suggest as a first mesaure to play a play-off between the Three winners of MSL LSL and USL to proclaim a "3d league champion" If you give them money for it etc. they will play it. Things like this have to happen and it must be a must to offer this three teams a proposition to play in First Division every single year. Lowering the requirements and working with them.

This has to be a process for a First Division regionalised in to a North and South group with 10 teams in each and lower standard required. There are two ways to get there, Increasing the teams of First Division which seems unlikely or Scrapping it one year to play with MSL, USL and LSL as second division and promoting to it the best teams.

I can see why the FAI suggests now a 10-10. They think if there are 10 teams in the First Division it might be more attractive for other clubs to join so we can go to maybe 10-11 following year 10-12 and then 10-14 and finally 12-12. They are just dreaming.

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Originally Posted by Briuk

For me its pointless to have a 3 group regionalised first division but its the only way to unify the systems. I am afraid this will only happen the season that 2 first division club go bust at same time it might be this one, next year, the following or in three but it will happen.

The unification is a must if football wants to grow in the country, either summer or winter. You can get a month off in January or in August with both systems for the second division for holidays or pitches.

The FAI needs to look into alternatives to promote this unification, I personally suggest as a first mesaure to play a play-off between the Three winners of MSL LSL and USL to proclaim a "3d league champion" If you give them money for it etc. they will play it. Things like this have to happen and it must be a must to offer this three teams a proposition to play in First Division every single year. Lowering the requirements and working with them.

This has to be a process for a First Division regionalised in to a North and South group with 10 teams in each and lower standard required. There are two ways to get there, Increasing the teams of First Division which seems unlikely or Scrapping it one year to play with MSL, USL and LSL as second division and promoting to it the best teams.

I can see why the FAI suggests now a 10-10. They think if there are 10 teams in the First Division it might be more attractive for other clubs to join so we can go to maybe 10-11 following year 10-12 and then 10-14 and finally 12-12. They are just dreaming.

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That would suggest there's been some strategic thinking in their league restructuring proposals. Or even some thinking full-stop.

Chances are they just wanted to be seen to do something. The easiest way to increase numbers in the First Division is to put more Premier Division clubs into it, rather than do the hard longer-term task of making it more attractive and viable for non-league clubs to join etc etc. So when the PCA were daft enough to apparently propose the idea it gave the FAI the perfect excuse to make a change that actually does nothing but which they can point to and say they're doing something. Frankly, it's a pathetic way to deal with a First Division with insufficient clubs in it.

Interesting proposal from the First Division clubs mentioned here:

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...for-promotion/

Would certainly make the division interesting. Top three playing off for the promotion slot is the gist of it if people don't want to read the article.

Is there an FCA now so?

No that's in use by the pretend soldiers. The Alliance of First Division Clubs perhaps?

I hear it's to be called the Yarns of Many Clubs Alliance.

It's fun to stay in the First Division.

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Originally Posted by Longfordian

No that's in use by the pretend soldiers. The Alliance of First Division Clubs perhaps?

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The AFC?

Sounds grand, so long as the Asians don't catch wind of it.

Good to see the First Division clubs starting to talk at least. The situation some clubs have been put in by this change is despicable.

Any update on the first division clubs meetings? The 1st division without a playoff is going to be such a disaster. Long season ahead.

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Originally Posted by SFC16

Any update on the first division clubs meetings? The 1st division without a playoff is going to be such a disaster. Long season ahead.

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I think it's fairly safe to assume at this stage the winner of the league will be going up, no playoffs. I understand wanting to keep the season alive for clubs but it just wouldn't be fair to have the winners play a one off game for promotion

Do it like last season, 2nd plays third and the winner plays the premier side in a 2 leg playoff?

The Premier Division clubs won't agree to potentially a fourth team going down.