We're flat out throwing the Belgium game if Hoolahan doesn't start. FFS.
We're flat out throwing the Belgium game if Hoolahan doesn't start. FFS.
Yep.
Agree with tets about not being surprised that he came off as he usually does - disappointing obviously - but still think he can manage a game next Saturday. It's not a busy schedule really - Mon/Sat/Weds would be common enough in the Premiership.
Also based on last night, we've a better chance against Belgium than against Italy - but dropping him to focus on Italy really puts all your eggs in the one basket. Don't think we can afford that. We have two chances to win and progress; we have to be prepared to take either.
Also, after likening Russia's goal against England to Houghton's against England, I think it's worth drawing comparisons between Hoolahan's goal and another famous Irish goal from the past...
Thread unlocked, sorry no idea how I managed to do that
No I was spot on in what I said, dreadful error by Clark, not the first time he's cost us goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
His positional sense and ability on the ball are appalling.
Had he had good awareness he'd of cleared the Ball, but no he headed it in.
Dreadful player
I agree with Doc on Clark. No point on saying what could he do. He's a defender and he's got to clear that ball. Excellent header though :(
Keogh/Duffy should be on for the Belgium game.
Otherwise, same XI for Belgium except Duffy for Keogh and maybe McClean or Meyler for Walters assuming he is out injured. I'm guessing they will have Hazard on the left so McClean/Meyler should be on there to help Coleman.
It will be interesting to see if the result of the Italy-Sweden game will affect the selection decisions as it is being played a full day before our game e.g. if Italy wins do we go more defensive in the hopes of getting a draw against Belgium? On both games yesterday I'd expect Italy to take care of Sweden and have the Second round qualification locked up before our game with them.
Sorry, I meant to quote the post I was referring to. I think it was Stu's post on previous page!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Sean - just leave it be. Sound like a jilted lover now.
Clark had a decent game and handled a world class striker without any problems. The first thing I would ask for the goal would be 'where was Coleman'? I've not seen any replays since I left the ground. Where was our right back?!
Walters isn't fit and shouldn't be playing. We had 10 men out there. However I really wouldn't trust McGeady to step up.....can't believe he went down like a sack of spuds in injury time and Whelan then rolled the ball out when we could have pushed for one more chance. FFS. He then jumped straight up so clearly nothing wrong with him!!
I thought Clark should have instinctively known that there was no upside trying to do anything with that ball in. Otherwise I thought he and O'Shea coped well.
I do feel that Duffy might start against Belgium though as they looked suspect at centre back.
Ronnie Whelan wrote a couple of weeks ago that we'd regret not picking O'Kane. He's not heralded here in context of the omissions but maybe it's a good call. I expect Wes to play a decent part in each of the next two games though, unless there is official news of an injury.
Wasn't any upside to leaving it though surely? Maybe he instinctively did know that, but all he could do was get something on it and hope it hit Randolph. Most likely he just thought 'oh s&*^' and got an instant knot in his stomach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I don't really get anyone who has suggested he could clear the ball. No way he can get a foot on it. It's head or bust. You might - might - question his positioning but he's travelling backwards with the defensive line and the cross, for the purposes of putting Clark in the doo-doo, is pretty much perfect.
Ronnie Whelan really peed me off yesterday - just after Sweden scored - "We will just have to try and hold out for a draw now" - he's the worst co-commentator we've ever had to listen to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Just back from Paris, wrecked.
Great atmosphere though a sense of deflation with the result. For me it was the best Irish performance I have witnessed since I was last in that stadium in 2009. Some wonderful chances created, clever football and good retention of the ball. Whelan, Houlihan both excellent, quite solid at the back also.
The disappointments were (1) the failure to score in the first half, (2) the failure to offer protection to Coleman, particularly when Walters went off, their LB was given way too much freedom, (3) options from the bench are limited. Wes was wrecked/injured. Walters both also and we don't have capable replacements, (4) supply to long was more long ball punts as opposed to accurate balls over the top - it was clear the swedes were very nervous of his pace, (5) need to look at options to get Coleman further more, is Christie an option at RM. Coleman very threatening when he got forward.
Despite deflation there are far more positives than negatives. I hope injuries to Walters, Houlihan etc don't ruin our options. With belief and similar performance we can get something from both Belgium and Italy game.
Aye, it was O'Shea who sliced it back towards our goal. I hadn't realised that either until I questioned how Sweden had had no shots on target the whole game despite that clearly being on target, but upon re-checking, it clearly came off O'Shea, so obviously wouldn't count as a Swedish shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Clear it with his foot? Or you think he could have headed it somewhere else? I just don't think it was physically possible. How on earth would he have managed to get his body or legs into a position which would have enabled him to clear it? It was at an awful height; his waist. He was running back towards our goal to keep position in front of Larsson, or between him and where the ball was going to come from.Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
Just re-watching the build-up to their goal again and Coleman was sticking tight to Forsberg during the whole passage of play. When Forsberg received possession, unfortunately that pulled Coleman out of position. Forsberg was then able to pass to Guidetti, who O'Shea was covering then, but Ibrahimovic was roaming free by that point. It was great movement by Ibrahimovic who had been chased away from the box by both Whelan and Hoolahan just seconds earlier.
Funny alright, they drew one one with us but the BBC match report has them with zero on target efforts from seven attempts, we registered four from nine.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Just on Clark, he had a choice of certain OG or possible goal. I think replays showed the ball would have missed the Swede. I'm not really nit picking, it was a tough scenario in real time. Richie Dunne would have been proud of him :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Edit: just watched ITV highlights and Dunney was on the panel. Dunne put it down to one of those things, Clark seeing the striker and feeling the need for a touch. Dunne said Coleman could have done better.
My re-take is that Randolph's positioning was maybe too far beyond his post, just by a metre or less. I'd personally have been hugging the post in that situation. He might have been able to cut it out by diving left if he was a bit further back and Clarks header might have hit him. I'd like a proper keeper's opinion on that! Not a major criticism by any means.
Bilic agreed we were by far the better team but that it was an ugly game will little constructive midfield play. He said it was an intense game where winning second ball was important and a lot of specualtive balls. Fair point, but it was better than we are used to! Dunne reckons Wes could have gone into better spaces to get the ball. It was only highlights but McCarthy did more than I recall, 3 routine passes. Walters was important for the Wes goal.
Refreshing to see a woman on the ITV panel, ex England international.
Came off Clark didn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
The earlier save, I think he is on about. Not the goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Yeah, I'd agree, it's split second stuff and Clark was good IMO yesterday and showed great mental fortitude after the OG in particular in how he finished the game. But it wasn't a sliced OG or a close deflection where the CB is helpless, he was always going to OG from there and the striker behind him actually had more work to do to put it in and could have missed. Still, split second stuff & we should have been enjoying a bigger lead anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
In real time you're right, he had no choice, he had to try to get something on it. Can't see any blame on Clarks part. Or Randolphs. However, had Darron not been beaten by Martial a few weeks ago, he may have gambled and been in a better position. Ifs, whats, maybes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Edit, i mean better in hindsight, he was in the correct position before the cross was hit.
Yeah - that was Clark as well not O'Shea.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
We've given ourselves a chance. Regardless of who you are, the experience most of these players have had of international football in a green shirt has been defeatist, negative and hopeless. Trapattoni told them they weren't good enough to compete at this level. Up to yesterday, they have largely had that hanging over their heads. If someone tells you your not good enough for long enough, you will eventually believe it.
I was concerned by the absence of positive language being used by players and management leading up to it. Talk is cheap too I said to myself. Doing is more important than talking. They needed to put in a performance, play some football, defend well, make some chances and not lose. In my book they ticked most of the boxes and in doing so have given ourselves a chance going into the last game. We did the same in Germany, Italy, USA and Japan. Tournament football is all about building as you go and minimising casualties and there will be casualties.
Hendrick wouldn't have been high on anyone's list of potential hero's going into yesterday's encounter but it was an inspiring display. Well done to him. Come Belgium and Italy, our dressing room won't be short of lads hoping to emulate him. We can analyse this til the cows come home but we're Irish. We might not be the best in the world but when we get a taste of belief we do extraordinary things.
Fupp the begrudgers!
(My first post since Stade De France 18 Nov 2009 (or thereabouts) - The day the music died...until yesterday.)
Just watched the highlights and noticed Clark was in a horrible situation later, another ball low across the 6 yard line that had OG written all over it! He did well.
The damage had already been done, in fact Clark can count himself lucky he didn't score another two OGs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
And let's not forget the time at the Aviva went he tried to play the ball out, lost control and gave away a goal.
This England reject joker shouldn't be anywhere near the squad let alone the team.
Can't believe anyone who hold the OG against Clark. That's an impossible situation for a defender, and he has a split second to react. Give him a break.
Interesting reading the headlines this morning, seemed split 50/50 between positive and negative.
We had a throw-in as well in the final seconds and could have gotten the ball quickly back into play for one more attack, but the players were faffing around with no urgency whatsoever. Couldn't fathom that.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Yup, you're right, sorry. Definitely Clark. Just re-watched it there. Thought it had been O'Shea as there were a lot of bodies in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
How could we forget? You never fail to mention it. You sound bitter. You'd nearly think it was because a better player took your place or something...Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
Who would you have in the squad/team instead of him? St. Ledger?
Good header from Clark all things considered, not quite as good a finish as this thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by the doc
We still love Sean St Ledger :o
Game was there for the taking if McClean was playing from the start instead of Walters, like he should have been.
We were on top of them for 45 minutes with a passenger up front.
And it's nothing about his ability. He just wasn't fit and the management had over a week to plan for someone to take his place but didn't do it.
Sad to see history repeat itself.
He won't become a scapegoat like Given et al. anyways.
And blaming Clark is absurd. It was a tactical failing, not an individual failing. We were an own goal waiting to happen for 20 minutes before the goal and nothing was done about it.
As good as we were in the first half, we were one note. We had Hendrick & Walters (again) supporting Long.
If McClean or McGeady were playing (again) we would have had more pace; could have had a different option and the ability to supply Long aerially and have Hendrick get on the end of loose balls, since the defenders had Long marked out of the game.
As it was, the ball was getting lumped up to Walters and every time he won it it just went straight back to a Sweden player.
But hindsight is 20/20 isn't it.
As absurd as some of the personnel and tactical decisions were, you ultimately have to give O'Neill credit though. He plays the right players, he is open to rotating (almost) every player, he is tactically flexible and he has restored a measure of respectability for the Irish team already after the washout in 2012.
Swapping McClean for Walters straight out meant that we wouldn't have been on top. Walters was unfit but still found ways to contribute to the tactical game that we played in the first half.
He did okay in the build up to the goal actually. I can't remember him contributing anything else TBCH.
McClean wouldn't have had to be like for like either.
The way the game turned out in the second half didn't suit McClean at all.
Is it though?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Cristiano Ronaldo was noticeably unfit for Real Madrid in the last two European Cup finals he's played in.
It's borderline to say it was worth playing him as it's Ronaldo.
I think the disparity in talent between Ronaldo and whoever would have replaced him is a lot greater than Walters and whoever would have come in for him.
I am just at a complete loss as to why he played. I think he would have been a fantastic option off the bench and we wouldn't have risked aggravating his injury and weakening our squad depth as a result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeathDrog
Yea if Belgium are the weakest side we want our strongest, but that would be an ecumenical matter. (debatable)
logged on last night and today to see what people were saying. often read, rarely write.
i cannot believe the negativity here.we played well, played real football, scored a great goal and got a draw against a good team.
you'd swear none of you watched ireland over the last few years.
best i've seen ireland play since the last time we played in that stadium.
sure - we have to get a result against either Belgium or Italy - but who knows, we might actually do it. at least it looks like the players believe they can do it. having that mindset is so good to see in them. the fear of the trap era is gone. players were hungry for the ball. great to see.
what more can we ask of them other than to give it a lash?
Yes I though the very same thing after I had seen it a few time, almost a mirror image of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Maybe they have been practising that kind of move, Keane of course played his part in the original.
I believe we qualified on that occasion, might be a good omen!
Good post, feel free to contribute more!Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoffifa
I honestly don't think McCarthy was looking for the ball. Hendrick made himself available all the time and found space too, but Whelan never had the courage to play the pass. I think the Jack/Trap fear of losing possession is ingrained into our culture, and I suppose Turners Cross (Meyler, Belarus goal) shows that maybe it's the right approach, but it frustrated me a lot.
Not negativity, just picking at the bits where I think we can work on.
I've been saying this since Israel in 2005: we are a team that isn't really used to winning, we don't have that habit, so leads are always going to be hard to protect against good teams until we start doing it more often.
http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.fr/201...swede.html?m=1
Blog on Sweden game and trip so far for anyone interested.
Nice.
Similar experience to my own, without the travel problems.
Cheers Stutts. Down La Rochelle now, very nice. Where you based?