Is that any different to calling a player of german extraction "hitler"? Would be difficult to justify that so why try on the same issue here?Quote:
Originally Posted by HulaHoop
Printable View
Is that any different to calling a player of german extraction "hitler"? Would be difficult to justify that so why try on the same issue here?Quote:
Originally Posted by HulaHoop
It's no different, but IF that is the abuse, then I'm not sure it's racism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsey
Isn't it? I can't imagine he'd have been called "Gaddaffi" because of his political outlook...
Particularly insulting (worse than Hitler comparison) given the conflict in Libya and the fact many of Zayed's relatives are caught up in it. That's IF The Sun's report is correct...
Maybe because he's of Libyan extraction and declared for Libya? I'm really not sure - I ain't claiming to be an expert - but I'd consider that to be different to abuse based on the colour of his skin, and the abuse alluded to earlier was purely based on the colour of his skin. And btw, not saying it's right, or that it isn't insulting, that it's not abuse or anything like that, I'm just not sure it's racism. Again, IF that is the abuse that he received.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Grand so, perhaps the FAI should confine any investigation to Stephen Kenny. I mean shams denied it and we all know they never deny things that are true :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_SRFC
Obviously dont know what occured but hard to believe anything from Tallaght given shams history of denial of previous rascist/fan issues (and player rumoured to be involved). Difficult to see why Zayed would makeup accusation about shams player and not Bohs/Dundalk/Sligo, hell, if he wanted headlines ... Derry player:D
Blaming player/manager involved for reporting it is clearest case of "shooting the messenger" ever
Gotta love this forum, ye'z are debating what the correct terminology should be for whatever Zayed is claiming was said to him rather that what should be done against the offender/stop it happening again. I noticed part of one of Shams press releases on this has retracted a particular paragraph, I wonder why. . . .
thats because if Zayed was simply verbally abused, then he's only suffering like probably every player in the league last week. You think players should get punished for calling Liam Burns a fat so-and-so, or Colin Hawkins a big nosed so-and-so each week?Quote:
Originally Posted by horton
Of course not.
Just like there's a huge difference between calling Ndo a moneygrabbing c*** and a black C***
The terminalogy is important, particularly when you're talking about punishment
If the Gaddafi comment is true, it's hardly the same as Liam Burns being called fat. Unless Burns' relatives are caught up in some kind of war with pies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
now they're saying if he was called gaddafi its not racist. seriously.....
Its not as if its (Tunisian) Dad or Irish mother. We're talking about distant cousins here in a country he had never visited before being approached to play football for them
Is calling an English woman Margaret Thatcher rascist? OR an American man George Bush? Or an Irish man Paul McGrath for that matter.
If that's what was said then it's probably not racist but it was way over the line and you can see why he was so upset. At least the offender did his research and use a geographically accurate insult.
I'm taking Zayed's word on it. At the very least his father is likely very concerned/upset and naturally that'll hit the rest of the family. The current conflict in Libya and the Zayed family's stake in it is no comparison with those examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
And I haven't said it's racist, although Zayed's race clearly had something to do with it. I do think it's a fairly disgusting and extremely stupid thing to say. Would think the same if someone rocked up to Fahrudin Kuduzovic and gave him grief about Ratko Mladic.
It's about as racist as calling Chris O'Connor of Bohs "Josef Fritzl"
The intent behind the terminology is what is important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Are you suggesting that those with a skin tone similar to that traditionally illustrated by most Irish cannot, by definition, fall victim to racist abuse in Ireland?Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
There's only one thing Zayed has in common with Gaddafi and that's his ethnicity. Any idiot trying to associate the two is obviously making a connection based on some ill-informed racial or national stereotype he's managed to concoct as a result of the recent unrest in Libya. It's hard to see how it couldn't be racist.
I'd imagine that calling someone Margeret Thatcher, or a Thatcherite, for example, would generally have different connotations. It would most usually be a slur based on that person's actual or imagined right-leaning political outlook.
Calling an American George Bush could well be racist, yeah, if the intent behind it was to insinuate that all Americans are idiots.
The issue here is if it's racist or not though. There is a difference between being an ignorant c**t of a player and being an ignorant racist c**t of a player, and the FAI are investigating a charge of racism in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
What we need is the definition of racism from which the FAI will reach a decision (do they even have one, or will they borrow oe from a dictionary?)
Well I differentiate between nationality and ethnicity. Zayed and Gadaffi have both (somewhat) in commonQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Shouting Gaddafi at Zayed isn't rascist IMO. Calling him a shoebomber (which is what I've hear the Rovers player is alledged to have said) is.
Are shams now saying a comment was made but it just was not rascist ? It really is difficult to keep up with the sham spoofers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
I haven't spoken of punishment in this instance, and I mostly agree - if that's the evidence and that IS actually what the player said. I was just underlining what a pig ignorant and insulting thing it is to say, before a load of posters come on having a jeer at Zayed about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
Why would calling an Australian an Austrian name be racist?
No - poor choice of words on my part, wasn't what I was trying to convey, or what I believe. The point I was attempting to make was that earlier posts had suggested he was called a term usually used to abuse people from the Indian subcontinent.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
What about the nationality they have in common, at least in a footballing sense? It ain't pretty either way, but I still not sure it's racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
If someone called me 'Jedward' I would go ballistic.
Doubt any of us know what was said.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
It does raise the question of whether the Rovers player denied saying anything, or just denies that what he said (if it was "Gaddafi") was racist.
Yeah I think you might have missed the hard hitting point I was trying to make in my very serious post.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
FWIW, I've no idea if the Sun's claim is true or not.
I wouldn't call that racist either. Zayed choose to play for Gaddafi's national side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
If a player decides to ridule him for supporting a tyrant, it cannot be racism in my opinion.
You can't seriously believe that.
Libians aren't a race if someone called him a Arab c*** or a sand n***** that would be racist alright. Calling him Gaddaifi could be seen the same as calling him a c***
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqVzRD_nWLQQuote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
Priceless.
Some posters seem to have a very narrow view on racism and should acquaint themselves with a proper definition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#LegalQuote:
the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life
Or, just nod and smile next time you're called a thick paddy.
Also calling him a shoe bomber is NOT racist. Muslims are made up of all different races it's probably sectearian just like calling a Jew a yid or a catholic a taig
So we’ve gone from a moral argument to a legal one. And wiki tells us so.Quote:
Originally Posted by A N Mouse
Or you could let us decide what we want to take offence to.Quote:
Or, just nod and smile next time you're called a thick paddy.
Fair play to Pats . The usual 'everything is wrong at Rovers' brigade out in full force enables them to take a back seat in all this :plane:
I don't like that plane at the end of the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopy
It clearly implies Zayed is a terrorist.
Which makes you a RACIST.
Which means Shamrock Rovers Football Club are RACIST
Which means they should be thrown out of the league.
And publicly flogged.
On a frosty morning.
[/thread]
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...eph_Fritzl.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by bluewhitearmy
Funny you taking the moral high ground about this. It must've been a different marinobohs on gypoweb who abused a fan of ours because he's gay.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
Plenty of homophobic chants or comments are made by supporters of every club in the league every week.
Not like the good old 70's though. For most of my childhood I thought a homosexual was a crap footballer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Army
Pats made one statement. That a complaint was made and an investigation is underway. You think they should be more proactive in making up stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopy
Seeing as neither Zayed nor Kenny have said that he was racially abused at Pats (Kenny actually clarifying that he didn't make a statement attributed to him), then I think its fair to say they're right to not talk about it.
Actually slagged him because of his behaviour, still as I said dont know what happened in Tallaght - unlike all the shams seemingly so certain there was no rascism involved (again).Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopy
Did comment that sham denials lack credibility given previous cases, glad to see you cant argue that. Nice try at trying to divert attention away from yet another example of shams "commitment to anti rascism" policy (perhaps should be changed to shams policy to deny rascism occured policy ?) so lauded by the FAI whitewash. Perahaps the player was just chanting hoops, hoops, hoops, ?:rolleyes:
Nonsense for starters. I saw the comment before it was removed and you were warned. It was homophobic and you know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs