Accomplished performance.
Best game McGeady has played. With Duff playing too, less pressure on him to to create. Similiar with Kombarov/dynamic.
There'll be some harsh words for Foley when they sit down for video analysis but he'll learn from it, simply must take responsibility when his man runs across the line.
Unfortunately we still look fresh out of ideas when we are 40 yards from goal with the ball at our feet.
More optimistic than I was 6 months ago.
In fairness he has improved out of all recognition since then, I think when he settled down at Man City under Keegan was the making of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
He will be a huge loss in the return game in Macedonia, hopefully the likes of JOS will be back.
I'd agree with the previous posters about how bad our central midfield duo were, this is especially obvious when Duff and McGeady ran at them, they had to double up on those two, this should have created space on the inside left and right for Gibson and Whelan yet they made few if any late runs into the box.
As for Duffer being MOTM, surely it should have gone to McGeady who had his best display in a green shirt for a long time.
If we were told before the w/e that we would be joint top then I'm sure we would have all taken it no questions asked. Now it's time to try a few new things against Uruguay on Tuesday night.
I thought we were very good for the first half hour but the remaining 60 minutes was way below bar. We are lucky to have the 3 points. Westwood made a great save and Pandev also missed a great chance from a corner I think. Central midfield is again the major talking point and it needs addressing. The game just passed Whelan and Gibson by and better teams will always exploit this.
On the plus side McGeady had his best game in an Irish shirt and deserved the MOTM award. Plenty of end product from him last night and with Duffer a constant threat on the other side we're two central midfielders away from being a good international side. Playing McCarthy (IMO) would mean we only need to find another central midfielder but he needs to start the games against Uruguay, Scotland and Northern Ireland to ensure he is ready for the tricky game in Macedonia.
Westwood - 8. An extra mark for that save. His save keeps us in contention.
Foley - 6. Mixed bag. Will improve if given the chance
O'Dea - 6. Steady
Dunne - 7. I thought he was excellent at times but the odd mistake brings his mark down.
Kilbane - 6. Steady but still hoofs it to nobody far too much for my liking.
Duff - 8. Looked a threat, worked hard and nicked a lot of ball from the opposition.
Whelan - 5. Typical Whelan performance.
Gibson - 5. Typical Gibson performance.
McGeady -8. MOTM
Keane - 6. Alert for his goal. I think we should have replaced him earlier because he must have been dying after playing so little football
Doyle - I think him going off was a big loss. He was bright early on.
Uruguay are going to hog the ball again Tuesday night if we play 4-4-2 so why not try something different? Let's play 3 central midfielders and make it difficult for teams to go through us.
A decent performance, with the obligatory heart-stopping moment. We played some fine stuff in the first half, and looked super comfortable - but got too comfortable. I don't mind us letting the other side have a lot of the ball when two up, but we still have to be switched on and alert.
- Westwood was accomplished and looks well ready for this level. O'Dea turned in a fine performance and didn't put a foot wrong. Dunne clearly half-fit and was at fault for the goal (plus was caught out for his booking), but fair play to him for playing. We'll miss him in Skopje. Killer had a solid time too, and played a lovely cross for Doyle's header. Foley seemed nervous to me, a little unsure at times, but he'll get better.
The midfield remains the issue per usual. I thought Gibson had a decent game, and as others have pointed out his passion was great to see. There was a moment in the first half when we were cruising, and Gibson and Whelan played a lovely bit of keep-ball in the centre of the pitch, spreading the ball from side to side. But they didn't do it for the rest of the match. Part of the problem is our 'out' ball is the wings, and usually launched high and long (particularly when we're under pressure). But the midfield occasionally show they can be assertive - I can't help but think they should be more conscientious about seeking possessing. Oh and having one CM who is more athletic - fast, strong, physical - would be a big help too.
The wingers played well and congrats to McGeady for his goal. The Macedonian's doubling up in the second half blunted their impact but they did well. Robbie scored a classic Robbie goal and Long didn't have the best game, but will get better - he did take a boot in the head (a definite red card that one).
I think Trap has to get some credit as well. He did his homework on the opposition and his team selections, even the marginal ones, proved to be justified. Even more importantly, when we were rocking in the second he steadied the ship with a couple of important substitutions, particularly Fahey's.
With the injuries etc it was a good performance, with plenty of room for improvement - with players emerging and becoming more comfortable, I'm optimistic we'll see that improvement.
A good win albeit a frustrating one. I will take heart in our performance in the last 15 or so. Typically we throw 11 men behind the ball and hoof it away. Instead we passed our way out of trouble and actually held onto the ball. Good reasons to be optimistic. Two additional points:
1. McGeady's first touch was excellent. Controlled some incredible balls. He looked great last night.
2. I'm glad the McCarthy thing is done and dusted. He looked eager and committed. I hope this works out for all of us.
shaker were you over at game?there seems to be a big following in nottingham.big group beside me in great form.
Westwood - Not at fault for the goal, got down well for some awkward deflections. Claimed a lot of balls in the air
Foley - Solid, but didn't work as well with Duff as some of other full back options
Dunne - Clearly short of match fitness, but marshalled the back line. Could hear him barking orders in the upper tier!
O'Dea - Justified his selection with some excellent tackles and reading of the game
Kilbane - Similar to O'Dea, justified his selection
Duff - Constant threat when in possession
Whelan - Worked hard, but had too much to do (see below)
Gibson - After the assist (sort of) for the opening goal, he faded badly and left a lot of the work to Whelan
McGeady -Excellent first touches and control, but still needs to work on the final ball. Delighted for him to get his first goal, should have been MOTM
Keane - Real poacher's finish for the second goal, but faded badly in the second half
Doyle - Big loss for the team so early in the game, had been a handful for the defence up to that
Long - Should have had at least one goal, but made some bad decisions in possession. Kept thinking the bang on his head (understandably) put him off his game as he lost a lot of 50-50 balls
Fahey - should have come on earlier, kept possession better than Gibson and settled the midfield. Still think he's the best partner for Whelan in the current squad
McCarthy - came on with almost no time left, but it lifted the crowd and gave midfield another out ball. Interesting that he played in front of the two central midfielders, and behind Long
The loss of Doyle so early in the game disrupted the game plan. I had thought that he would play the entire game, with Long coming on for Keane in the second half. The two wingers gave their full backs kittens every time they were in possession, and were frequently doubled up on, but we still can't seem to take advantage of the extra player.
The player who tried to decapitate Long should have seen red (compare to the sending off against Italy when O'Shea was elbowed, Long took studs to the head). Also, we didn't work their keeper in the second half, despite his clear deficiencies.
The positives are the performances of O'Dea, and McGeady in particular. Also, The unneeded, and unwarranted, speculation over McCarthy's allegiance can now cease.
Agree with almost all of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Just add that Foley played very well for his first competitive game and certainly offers a solid option. Should play the away game now as Dunne will be out and JOSH should be used at CB. He did seem to be instructed not to push forward which was a pity as there was numerous opportunities for an overlap with Duffer.
Good to see McGeady finally bringing an end product to his good build up play. There were a number of times in the second half when he still took too much out of it, too many touches etc.
Good first half performance, very assured, very comfortable. I thought Gibson had his best game for us, Whelan certainly was the poorer of the two and gave the ball away loosely a few times. Fahey and McCarthy surely deserve consideration for the CM roles and would love to see a bit of experimentation on Tuesday.
Great save from Westwood from the Macedonia No 7? was it in the second half. All round assured from WW. The macedonia no 7 was a tidy looking player, a constant thorn and someone who will need to be watched in June.
Pity we didnt get to half time at 2-0 as i think we wouldve gone on to win far more comfortably. The goal just before half time changed momentum, we became edgy and Macedonia had hope. It was only in the last 10 mins that we got our foot on the ball and regained control of the game.
The group is very much in our own hands now, heres hoping for the future and we use the three upcoming games to develop the team. Im glad to see Trap has sent home 5 of the more senior players which is good, means he is going to mix it up on Tuesday. I know tickets are not cheap for these games but still a pity to see the place only 3/4s full last night. Will be worse on Tuesday.
This was a poor performance really, 2-0 up with about 20 minutes gone from 2 mistakes by the keeper. Macedonia looked to have no confidence. A mistake by Dunne ( understandably rusty from lack of recent club football ) and suddenly Macedonia are a much better outfit and posing a threat.
My biggest concern is that knowing their keeper was very poor we didn't force him to make a single save in the second half.
Doyle was a huge loss as Long was very poor I thought, kick to the head notwithstanding. In his defense he's really not a target man and lumping balls forward to him a low % strategy which usually just gives the ball away. It's a pity that Best wasn't available.
I thought McGeady and Duff both played well. Duff tracked back well and won possession several times, but was hampered in his forward progress by Foley presumably playing to instruction to play behind Duff at all times.
I'd like to know what instructions is Gibson playing to? He has the engine to get forward and get into the box or at least present himself as an outlet for Duff / McGeady but didn't do so, I'm not sure if that is his fault or the managers. If it's his fault then Fahey or McCarthy should be give opportunities as Gibson and Whelan for that matter are wasteful when they do get possession.
The return trip to Macedonia won't be easy, they'll need to play with much more tempo.
Westwood won us 2 points. The positive is we hung on for a win which is something that has been a problem for a long time.
I wouldn't say we hung on. They created two chances, and took one. Nervous moments notwithstanding, and Westwood's save, they didn't particularly threaten. They got a lot of the ball but didn't do an awful lot with it. If we insisted on keeping the ball more and asserted ourselves in their half, I think we'd have won handy.
I wouldn't say we hung on either. There was a 20/25 minute period at the start of the second half when we were under pressure, but for all Macedonia's work they only created one chance which Westwood saved very well. The last 15 minutes, Ireland were actually pretty comfortable.
100% correct, first 40 minutes and last 15 we were very good. Outside of that we were avearge at best. Their goal was game changing, would have fancied us for another had we held on till half time at 2-0.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Goals change games. One of the most important and true cliches in football.
If Long had taken his self-made chance to make it 3-0 we'd have been heading for Kingdom's prediction of a rout. Instead Dunne was a bit clumsy and we nearly had kittens for a while.
Separately, Kevin Foley: generally very good game but what a brain fart to let your man through for Westwood's save. I think if this was KK or another of the less popular* players he'd have been slated.
* obviously KK is popular, but you know what I mean.
Not hung on in the sense they were putting us under concerted pressure, however they did slow they had the ability to pass through us and create opportunities. Being 1 goal up is always hanging on, it takes 1 slip to lose 2 points. I've seen some Barca games recently where they're cruising at 1-0 and they let in a goal and suddenly the best team in the world is scrambling and under pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Bottom line is Macedonia were really poor until Dunne's mistake, after that all the way to the final whistle the sides looked pretty even, they will take a bit of confidence out of that game for the return leg.
Foley is 25 so he's no kid, he played a very conservative game presumably at the instruction of Trapp. He really didn't take any risks and wasn't put under much pressure, he did make a poor decision not to follow his man for Macedonia's best chance of the 2nd half and was bailed out by the keeper. I would say a solid debut, but he's probably a safer option that Stephen Kelly / Eddie Nolan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The freakiest thing about the game was that McGeady was all set up (astrologically, taroted, i chinged) to score in this game and before your árse could settle properly into a seat, the ball was in the net, he had scored.
I'd have Foley as our regular right back all the time, with JOS and Dunne at CB, but I just felt that had one of the team's boo-boys let their no 7 in for that chance he'd have been crucified. Instead it was brushed under the carpet in some people's appraisal of foley, despite him having a generally solid game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerty
When guys are making their effective debuts there's always going to be a hairy moment or two. I can see Foley being a very good player for us, starting from now. I agree that he wasn't a rampaging overlapping full back due to instruction, but I also reckon he played conservatively out of innate cop-on - "make no mistakes and I'm in". If the position becomes his I reckon he'll show his own personality a lot more.
Bang on. Barca were 2 up against Getafe, then conceded on 86 mins. In the last minute Getafe got a great chance but fluffed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerty
Northern Ireland were 1 up in Serbia. Early in the second half Gorman put in a lovely ball for Brunt that was brilliantly cut out by a Serb CB, otherwise it was a tap in. 0-2 & game over probably.
Instead it remained 0-1 and once Serbia got their equaliser it was game over, albeit ultimately with the help of a deflection.
Arsenal barely touched the ball in Barcelona, and got an OG from a corner. Barcelona trounced them subsequently but Bendtner* missed a great chance to knock them out.
Ireland 2-0 Estonia, under Mick. Comfortable win, but 30 seconds before Kinsella opened the scoring, Alan Kelly made the same key save that Westwood made last night.
Gary McAllister's missed penalty in Wembley in '96, just before Gazza's great goal.
Comfortable win versus terrible result determined by a fine margin in all of the above instances.
Sometimes your luck is in. You concede chances but no goals, you win and everyone says it was deserved. You ship a freak strike out of nothing like we did against Andorra and all of a sudden a comfortable, professional win becomes a near disaster in the press' eyes.
Goals change games. The most important cliche in football, and one of the least appreciated.
* lovely player that Wilshere is, that awful, manufactured pass with the outside of his left was the root cause of Bendtner's miss. Instead, an easy pass with the inside of his right was too difficult. Why can't even the most gifted and lauded footballers use both feet? I haven't heard one pundit or hack pick Wilshere up on this.
Ah come on Stutts, I'd have fancied myself to knock that chance in, it was a total fluff from Bendtner, I thought Wiltshire put it on a plate for him....Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
If you look at it again with the following in mind: Wilshere could have played it just perfect with his right but instead decided to manufacture an awkwad pass with his left. Instead of running onto a ball he couldn't miss Bendtner had to adjust - not much admittedly. He should still have scored but the pass was 2-3 feet back from where it should have been. Even if the pass was perfect he should have played it with his right. I hate seeing players using their only good foot when laws of physics dictate using the other foot.
Remember, Dunne and O'Shea were Trapattoni's starting centre half partnership until St Ledger emerged as a credible partner for Dunne, and until now there hasn't been a player good enough to replace him at right full when he's been available (i.e. Kelly or McShane)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Still a fair number of Irish left in Nottingham!Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
That wasn't me. I travel over on my own and meet up with cousins before the game.
Ok, I see myself agreeing with skstu again on a lot of points i think. I definitely think Mcgeady was man of the match even if he had a few wayward passes and poor crosses. If mcgeady hadn't played we would probably have had 10% less possession and time on the ball. I really don't see how Duff got MOTM, he was good but thats as far as it goes. One thing I noticed which you definitely wouldn't figure from watching on the TV is the complete lack of communication between Duff and Foley, on many occasions duff was looking behind him after running forward for back up but foley was nowhere to be seen. He rarely ventured past the half way line in the second half, and with Trap right beside him on the line I gather this was the reason. But a few more games together and I am sure their understanding and communication would improve. What really got me again was when duff or mcgeady got the ball there was never any help for either of them or support from the midfielders, even the forwards they were obviouslly told to stay in the box, but with the big macedonian centre halfs what was the point in that? I thought duff and mcgeady had it very tough from that point of view, if they didnt get their cross in they were to be lambasted by us, but yet no one was helping them.
On the foley thing, in Gaelic you follow yer man wherever he goes, like a greyhound on a rabbit, but in soccer you more mark your area as opposed to your man, so I'm less inclined to blame him here completely. It has nothing to do with being someone like kilbane or whatever. ON the kilbane thing he was ok, as was O'dea they didn't have an awful lot to do to be honest, against macedonia away I would like to see how they perform, and obviously russia away too(if selected i know, i mean the quality of the opposition and the venue). I think people get over excited when they see a player doesn't make a howler in a game, in their eyes it automatically means a player has played well. The first thing i noticed which happened twice at the start of the game, was kilbane coming into deep, he got caught out once, but the linesman flagged for offside, right over the top of him, so I gather they had done their homework on him, kilbane hadn't a clue it was offside either which means he wasn't aware of his positional sense or of the opposition at all.
We don't seem capable of not conceding to the opposition when we go ahead, the ball is played through us very very easily. Just because they didn't score a second and we won doesn't mean we had it easy or were comfortable, it just shows how limited the macedonians were tbh, if that was against a better opposition like russia at home, all that possession would be made count and we would be punished, as so easily demonstrated with their goal and westwoods great save, when they played a little intelligently they carved us open like a good sunday roast.
Overall, we really should be 2 points clear at this stage, but again people will be clouded by the fact we are halfway through and we are joint top. 10 points from 5 games, its fairly average really, as have the opponents we've played. Still its up to us with only one really tricky away game left so it could be worse, but it most certainly could be a lot better.
You didn't get laid in Dublin obviously Paul.
Nobody is claiming that everything is all hunky dory. Everyone accepts that we've left points out there (as usual), but maybe that the Armenia away win wasn't just to be expected, it was actually a decent result.
Foley / GAA / tracking his man: it was a bad mistake. He wasn't in tune with the other defenders who were pressing up for offside - a key part of our defensive strategy. Foley is a footballer, not a GAA player. Generally I thought he was decent enough, and erred on the side of conservatism. If he keeps his place I reckon he'll grow into the role.
O'Dea gave no reason to give those who criticised his selection any reason to say "I told you so". Obviously there are bigger tests ahead and hopefully we can revert to our senior CBs. In hindsight the view that O'Dea's selection was "ridiculous" didn't hold any water.
Macedonia missed a gilt-edged chance. I reckon we missed at least two: Long and Duff. It's a footy game. Teams exchange chances, whoever takes more wins.
We switched off and were happy to let them have the ball when ahead. This occurs far too much and is a major flaw in the team.
The point about Foley I was trying to make was whoever was in that area should have picked up on the ball and player and followed - it wouldn't matter if they lost their own man as he would have been out of play anyway.
About O'dea, the question i was trying to ask was, would it have been any different had clark been in there? I don't think so, as there was very little to do, yet it would have given dunne and clark another game together in the centre and improve their understanding. In the longer term I don't see O'dea being our first or second choice CB, even after Dunne and O'shea have retired.
That's pretty speculative though. Trap played O'Dea - justified it to the public pre-game - and O'Dea went on to fully vindicate his selection, a selection which helped us secure a must-have three points. That's the important thing, not whether Clark gets a head-start in the race for 2016.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
And while I fully agree re:Clark, if O'Dea keeps rising to these challenges there's no reason why he can't compete for a place.
Thats the unprovable argument and quite frankly ridiculous. All that was asked to be done in this game was that O'Dea justify his selection and he did enough to justify it 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
As Houghton said, the future is the next game.
All bets were off if we dropped points here.
Granted O'Dea did okay against Macedonia but I think you need to qualify that one performance in relation to what he has previously shown. We'll see how he gets on without Dunne by his side against Uruguay - hopefully he'll put in another good performance but I think he's too slow, cumbersome and technically weak for international football.
Its speculative only for the fact that neither would have had much to do. The point is it didn't come down to any game saving tackles or whatever, Macedonia were very limited in going forward, they only had about 2 clear chances through the middle, one which they took, one which they didn't, O'dea didn't have anything to do with either which can't be seen positively or negatively as it wasn't his area. You have to take the context of one game, into his very average performances in previous games, where he has HAD to be more involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
And the goal again, i beleive kilbane was nearly at fault as much as Dunne, but i dont need to keep going on there.
He's had one big test as an international and he's passed it - whether he now turns into Dunne or McShane is another question, but I don't think there should be any qualifications about how he played on Saturday. He did well, end of. He'll be judged game-by-game just like any other player.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
And that's ridiculously speculative. Might as well speculate on why O'Dea didn't score a headed winner when we were possibly at 2-2 and it might have been injury time (possibly). This is NOT to say O'Dea will have bigger, more difficult, tests to face - of course he will. But to focus on the mistakes he might have made rather than focus on the facts of his actual performance comes across as wilfully negative and crass. Let's give credit where it's due and refrain from taking potshots until it's actually warranted...Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Kilbane can carry a bit, but Dunne let his man go and then was turned far too easy. All too familiar from watching him at Villa this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Who made the clean tackle on Pandev in the box?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Clark would have throttled him and conceded a penalty, for sure.
Well thats speculative too geysir! But I actually thought that was Dunne, fair point, but its only 1 tackle.
Thats true too SVD, I put that down to dunne being rusty but you might have seen more at Villa than I did. I thought he looked laboured and committed himself too quick and was then not sharp enough to cut back inside, but had kilbane done the basics and pushed his man out wide instead of letting him turn in on his left to make the pass then that wouldn't have happened.
But ya Dunne was way to easily turned, that aside he was immense though, far more so than kilbane.
Speculative? no way, by your standards of argument :)Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
It proves the point that in a split second crucial tackle to make in the box, Trap put all his chips on O'Dea making the mature choice, which points to as to why he did not select Clark. So obviously Clark would have displayed what Trap suspected about him.
Maturity over younger ability was a proven selection in that game.
In O'Dea's case he actually started the game with a really well timed tackle, and was in tune with Dunne throughout. He did what he needed to do. If he was nervy or just not up to it he'd have been found out. I think it's churlish not to acknowledge that O'Dea did just fine and to try and qualify his performance by citing the opposition. If the poor quality of the opposition was a factor why be bothered about who played CB?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
wrt Foley, not keeping in line with the other defenders was the mistake, and it was a mistake. We got away with it so we move on without further recrimination.
I actually think we have two tricky away games left - three if you look at how Slovakia did against Andorra on an absolute disgrace of a pitch. Unless Russia doesn't count as tricky on account of it being downright hard.
Drop Keane says Miguel Delaney. Among some other drivel...
I was very unsure about O'Dea's selection as the expense of Clark(e)??!!?).
Credit where its due - O'Dea produced a very good performance and some excellently timed challenges helped the entire team grow in confidence which also fed the crowds enthusiasm.
O'Dea delivered upon all that was asked of him on Saturday and he should get the deserved recognition for job well done.
P.S - could the rarely used "accounability metre" show that in the past I have stated that Green could develop into a decent player for us and that I had grave concerns about O'Dea's selection.
................the last shreds of credibilty on foot.ie tore asunder.....................
always liked hogan.great piece:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...e-2596929.html
a tip lad txtd me on saturday after keanes goal saying something similar, gaa head but likes the soccer too.
I liked that article alright.
Something else about O'Dea's selection that I didn't consider before the game is his experience in high profile games - he has Champions League experience against the likes of AC Milan and played in Old Firm games, including scoring against Rangers in the League Cup final in 2009, whereas Clark has only a handful of game before this season.
I'm not saying that would have justified his selection, his performance did that, but it would have been another factor in his favour.
Superb article. Really well written.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea