Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
"They demanded to know why the new stadium will be higher than others with almost twice its capacity."
Why do they "demand" that?
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Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
"They demanded to know why the new stadium will be higher than others with almost twice its capacity."
Why do they "demand" that?
The only thing I got from them was a pair of ear plugs while I was working nights. I agree, all they're looking for is compensation. The only residents that are close enough to Lansdowne to complain about the height are those in Havelock square, even then its only going to 1 tier at the Havelock square end. Who is complaining about the height?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
/edit - Oh, I see its the Shelbourne Road residents. They can go and jump. The height of the stadium won't effect them.
The nimbys :rolleyes: - high at the sides to make up for being so low at either end because of the light issue. Hardly shocking that a hack from that rag didn't ask them about it though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
totally agree about it being all about the compo.
Because it's being built on a smaller site, why do they think. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Indo
How will this impact on Shelbourne Road anyway? There's at least 100m between the stadium and Shelbourne Road. They're obviously just looking for free money.
I don't know how relevant it is but I see the Camp Nou is listed in the not-so-high-for-its-capacity earlier in the thread. The guide on that stadium said that they couldn't go any higher without restructuring the whole ground for the 1982 World Cup so what they did was to dig out another tier on the inside, thereby effectively putting a 3rd tier in without the need for going up. Very clever I thought.
The residents have 2 simple choices
- accept the stadium will be built there & get as much input in as they can or
- wait for developers to build apartments & offices which will mean more traffic on a daily basis.
It really is that simple.
You have no right to natural light..........its a premise based on an old civil tort of the 18th century. So no compoQuote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
I'd say 2 houses max would be effected by the height of the stadium. Give them a few grand each and tell the others to gtf.
Jebus, it aint that hard a choice when you think about it ..... do the residents know that it boils down to just this ??Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Are you sure about that? I know you have no right to a view but did think some rights to light... not floodlights :)Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
I may be wrong, but somehow I cannot see this being the official response!!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Well I'm sure they'll be told to gtf in a more polite way. :) The vast majority of those on Shelbourne Road won't be affected by the height of the stadium.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
The height of the stadium shouldn't be a major concern. All the stakeholders were consulted throughout the design process. The design was altered to take account of fears over loss of light. I was looking at the photo montages submitted with the application and it is obvious that the stadium will not block light to houses on Shelbourne Road. The orientation of the sun means that the stadium structure can only restrict morning light. However, as it happens, Shelbourne Road is sufficient distance from the stadium, meaning that this will not be a problem. The only residents that have genuine grievances over sunlight are those living in the Havelock Square (north terrace) end of the ground. However, the stadium has been designed so that the roof drops considerably at the north end. The transparent roofing will allow sufficient light to reach these houses. Indeed, the new northern part of the stadium will actually be lower than the current walled north terrace, thereby offering a considerable improvement.
Its clear that local residents are trying to get the best deal they can. I am very confident that both Dublin City Council and An Bord Pleanala will come to a favourable decision regarding the new stadium. The Environmental Impact Statement submitted with the application is fairly comprehensive. There's just over a week left for objections to be lodged with the Council. The decision of the planning authority will undergo a great deal of scrutiny so I would be expecting them to buy time with a Request for Further Information. In this regard, it is likely that the proposed demolition of a house on Shelbourne Road (think its no. 70?) to enlarge the existing pedestrian access, will emerge as a major issue.
Regardless of the final decision of Dublin City Council, the application will be subject to either a first party or third party appeals to An Bord Pleanala. Therefore, we should be prepared for a prolonged process.
In response to someone above who posted that the lower tier of the Nou Camp was cleverly "dug out", this method has been used for a few stadiums across the continent. Indeed, from what I remember of the Olympic Stadium in Barcelona where Espanyol play, the same technique was used. I heard that they considered doing something similar with the new Lansdowne. However, this would be a non-runner with Dublin City Council due to the proximity of the stadium to the sea. Believe it or not, rising sea level would be a concern for building the stadium at a lower level like the stadia in Barcelona.
Message to Shelbourne Road residents.... The IRFU HQ was there before you lot moved in. Get over it or FARQ off to some other area!
Big and all as the stgadium might be, I guarantee the new offices and apartments on the Berkley Court site will be higher and that will get planning!
However I do believe that very generous compensation should be paid to all those living within 1 mile of the ground that moved into their houses before Lansdowne Road was first built in the late 19th century as they were there first all others can p*** off!!
I'm not sure many of those residents from the 19th century will still be alive.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Forever Dreamin
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. Yesterday, Dublin City Council requested Further Information on over 40 issues regarding the proposed redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. The main issues include why the application is for a ten-year planning permission instead of five years. This won't be a problem however. Another issue concerns the viability of the transparent roof in the long-term. However, the main problem would appear to be with regard to ownership rights and particularly the failure to agree terms with Wanderer's Rugby Club.
Amazingly, the newspapers have failed to realise that Dublin City Council were a day late with their request for Further Information. Technically, this would allow for a default planning permission, meaning that development could go ahead without any decision from An Bord Pleanala. However, this is a legal route which I'm sure will not be pursued.
It's looking like next January before we get a final decision from An Bord Pleanala.
First murmurings of a delay. Article from todays Indo:
JOHN DRENNAN
THE proposed new national stadium in Lansdowne Road is in danger of turning into an even bigger disaster than the infamous "Ceaucescu-style" Bertie Bowl.
An interim Dublin City Council Planning Report, seen by the Sunday Independent, indicates that before a single digger has moved onto the site, the timetable for the construction is in serious trouble.
The Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company (LRSDC) initially expected construction proper to "commence in the first quarter of 2007, and to finish in the second quarter of 2009".
However, the city planners have thrown this schedule into disarray.
In its response to the initial plans, the Planning Office has sought an unprecedented 106 pieces of further information under 43 headings.
Some of the claims, which are detailed in the report under the heading "objections received and taken into account", are scathing about LRSDC's initial application.
A variety of objectors claim serious aspects of the planning application are "deficient", "unclear" and "misleading". This is centred around issues such as whether the translucent glass roof "will deteriorate and discolour with age".
There are concerns that, in this "residential area", the removal of asbestos will pose a "major health hazard".
It has also been claimed that "information deficiencies" mean "the current application is invalid" as "the new restaurants, bars, betting and conference facilities are a material change of use".
In its response to these concerns, the City Council Planning and Development Department has also raised other questions, such as "the archaeological potential" of the site, which may have a 17th Century mill on the grounds.
Possibly the most serious issue of all is the request by the council for further research into the benefits of constructing "a sunken stadium" where the pitch is lowered by up to six metres.
This position may be informed by the increase in height of the stadium from 32 metres to 48 metres, which has created fears among the residents around Lansdowne that they will be living in the shadow of a stadium which will be "as high as Liberty Hall", and that this may result in incidents of depression and Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).
The huge price of constructing a sunken pitch is only one of a number of cost implications which the LRSDC now faces.
A senior planner has warned that "in the light of the requirement of the planning department for a vast amount of further information, the planning status of the application may not be regularised for two years".
It may even be necessary, "in the light of such information, to advertise afresh some or all of the elements of the proposed stadium".
Under such conditions, "an optimistic date for the granting of permission" would be late 2007.
However, since this has to be presented to An Bord Pleanala for final approval, "should this be granted, we will then be into 2008".
If "account is taken of the time factor in preparing amended contract documents resulting from the likely many additional conditions attached to the final approval and the process of tendering", demolition may not start until the middle of 2009.
This series of events will have serious political and sporting implications.
Sports Minister John O'Donoghue may secure the unwanted political legacy of presiding over the collapse of two proposed national stadiums, while any failure of the Lansdowne proposals will enhance the perception of government incompetence.
Any delay will have major consequences for the initial Lansdowne Road budget of €365m. Construction inflation and more complex planning conditions could add up to €200m to the final cost of the stadium.
Ironically, this will mean Lansdowne Road, which has only 60 per cent of the capacity as Abbotstown, will cost up to €200m more than the €360m Bertie Bowl.
This would have serious implications for the financial stability of the FAI and the IRFU, since the Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, and Mr O'Donoghue were quite clear that the Government's contribution of €191m was "final and absolute".
The fiscal implication of the report has raised the spectre that unless the Government reverses its position, Lansdowne Road will never happen, since the stakeholders will be faced with bankruptcy.
But the chances of government aid were summarised by one source who noted: "If you think, after the collapse of his Bertie Bowl dream, that Bertie Ahern is going to bail these guys out you can forget it. He must be rubbing his hands at this denouement."
The debacle will have serious ramifications for the FAI.
Its CEO John Delaney has claimed he was "certain we will be playing in Croke Park in March" and there was "nothing in the objections we did not envisage".
However, there may be even more serious inquests within the ranks of the GAA, whose contentious motion on Rule 42 agreed that "Central Council shall have the power to authorise the use of Croke Park" for soccer and rugby "during a temporary period when Lansdowne Road football ground is closed for the proposed development".
The FAI and IRFU application was accepted on the basis that Lansdowne Road would have to be closed in 2007.
However, opponents of lifting the ban will now be claiming that such a decision represents "a serious case of prematurity", since Lansdowne Road could now be available "for at least two and possibly three seasons ahead".
They will also argue that, even if planning permission is granted by 2009, the "many restrictions" on the construction will mean that it will stretch well beyond the allocated period of 27 months. That means that Croke Park may have to be available to the FAI and the IRFU until 2012, but such a timeframe was not advertised in the GAA congress vote.
Old News, The architects were already given 6 months to respond & assuming that completed plenty of time for the planners to access before construction starts next year. Smells like a GAA agenda there...?
Exactly Pete, more lazy journalism from the Indo. As you said, the development team have 6 months to respond and more than likely, the Resposnse to F.I. will be submitted before the summer. At one point in the article, the journalist wrote that failure to gain planning permission would be bad news for the government. Later in the article, the journalist wrote that Berties Ahern might take satisfaction from the failure of the project. What a contradiction. Sloppy journalism from a p!ss poor newspaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Ah Jayziz lads the Indo isn't THAT good :DQuote:
Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
Hope you're right and it is just paper talk. I have always had a suspicion that there were going to be a number of gremlins in this project:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
- does it have full Govt. support? If it does it will happen regardless. I believe there is something in this 'Bertie would like to see it fail' angle. He was really pi**ed about about the Bertie Bowl and saw it as his personal legacy to Irish sport.
- the influence of D4 anti-planning permission lobby is being underestimated. There are a lot of influential people who have vested interests, other than NIMBY, in this not going ahead. LR is prime real estate.
- was the application for planning permission rushed through to meet deadlines imposed not by DCC, but by GAA and UEFA/IRB? The number queries/points of clarification raised would indicate that the preparation process did not include much evaluation of what queries/objections were likely to be raised.
I hope I am wrong.
I've no doubt there may be problems with the project but i heard the IT environment journalist (Frank whathisname) on the radio a coiuple of months back & he outlined all the timescales & seems generally in favour of the project which was a surprise. I think he said there was an acknowledgement on the City Council side that the facility is required.
Any future hiccups is pure speculation at this stage.
HE €365m plan to redevelop Lansdowne Road got the green light from Dublin City Council last night.
But while rugby fans around the country were rejoicing at the news, angry residents were busy preparing to appeal the decision to An Bord Pleanala.
Locals living on Lansdowne Road, Shelbourne Road and O'Connell Gardens, which border the stadium, say the sheer scale of the proposed 50,000-seater arena will have a detrimental impact on their quality of life. Residents have taken exception to the fact that the development will encroach on their homes, block off light and cause major traffic congestion during events.
"We are totally dismayed at the decision," said Pauline Palmer, whose house in O'Connell Gardens backs on to the North Terrace of the famous old ground.
"This development will take away my skyline. Everyone living here will be affected by this.
"While the rest of Ireland is probably rejoicing at the decision, let's hope they all realise that there will still only be 19,000 tickets available to the public after the corporate and premium seats are sold."
She said residents felt that Dublin City Council completely disregarded objections made by locals in the past few months.
Lily O'Callaghan, who has been living on Lansdowne Road for the past 21 years, said locals were extremely disappointed.
"What we are most worried about is the fact that this development is completely made of translucent glass and if there is a fire or a bomb there is absolutely no natural barrier. We will be the ones that are hit."
The council granted planning permission for the development with 28 conditions attached.
However, local Labour councillor Kevin Humphreys, who lives in O'Connell Gardens, said a number of conditions needed to be altered if residents were to be remotely satisfied with the new project.
"The conditions to control the levels of dust on site are inadequate, to say the least," he said. "Under the conditions set out by the council, the developer will just have to hose down the stored material on site rather than have dedicated sprays installed around the exterior of the site to keep dust on site."
Cllr Humphreys said residents were also concerned that there were no conditions relating to the number of concerts that could be held in the new stadium every year.
But Sports Minister John O'Donoghue welcomed the long-awaited decision. "I see this as an important milestone in the realisation of this exciting project, which is progressing very much on schedule."
It is hoped the new stadium will be ready by 2009.
The IRFU, while welcoming the decision, said there was still a long way to go before construction got under way.
"The Irish Rugby Football Union warmly welcomes the notification from Dublin City Council of their decision to grant planning for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road, while respecting that there remains some way to go in the process," said IRFU president Peter Boyle.
"The importance of this project for the future well-being of the whole of Irish rugby cannot be overstated."
Objections are expected to be lodged with An Bord Pleanala in the coming week.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Old Biddy
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Biddy Eile
Clutching at straws, methinks, if that's the best they can come up with. No point arguing about congestion and problems with big crowds as capacity will be unchanged and smaller than at times in the past. Skyline would be more disrupted by the massive apartment complex that would replace the stadium if this falls through.
Best part of this is that it puts a halt to the objectors in the (Ulster) GAA who planned to block soccer/rugby from Croke Park if the planning process hadn't started. Once they get in to Croker, they can take their time finishing Lansdowne as far as I'm concerned. :)
Lansdowne Road residents have no case as the stadium is not particularily close to their houses - road & front garden between them.
Complaining about impact of a bomb is ludicrous & if thats the best they can come up with no hope.
A stadium is probably better option for residents than apartments & offices which will have 24/7 traffic.
The new stadium will not increase crowd numbers but will allow people leave the area very quickly afterwards.
Me thinks they are merely clutching at straws and no more. The issues raised in those press cutting are silly and will be ignored.
As for Croke Park and the ulster gaa gang, I just hope the project gets finished on time so we can get out of their place (that we subbed) and we can dis-associate overselves from them quickly. Funny isnt it, the people of ulster are whinging and moaning and spouting their usual sectarian dross about football going to Croke Park and were moaning about our new stadium and they are the only people on the island who didnt contribute a cent to either.
Lily ya bleedin legend!! :p What a great quote, nearly p1ssed meself laughing when I read that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Like WTF? She wants the Stadium to protect against bombs? :rolleyes:
I can just hear George Hamilton now, "And here we are now at the opening ceremony for the new Landsdowne Bomb Shelter......eh, Stadium!!"
And as for complaining about dust when the building work gets under way? Welcome to Dublin love!! What about the people that live beside the LUAS and had to put up with that while the lines were being constructed..
And sure anyway, as has been said already, would the residents prefer a load of dodgy apartment blocks to be built in it's place?
It all just reminds me of when U2 played Croker recently. The residents were on the news complaining, not about the noise, not about the crowds and not even about the traffic. They were on complaining that they didn't get any free tickets. :rolleyes: If they don't like where they live, move out!! I've no sympathy whatsoever. Bit harsh I know, but it just annoys the hell out of me.
Will the rugger boys be given maps to show them how to get to Croker?Quote:
But while rugby fans around the country were rejoicing at the news...
Or will there be shuttle buses from outside Trinity?
what is this about the crowd size staying the same? 50k vs. 35k if I'm not mistaken??
Last time I checked friendlies had about 43,000 attending. 7,000 aint that much more. Rugby matches bring in 45,000 +, so as people said the volume of people around isnt going to be any different than before.
Im sure the rugby fans will get on fine. I fail to understand why some (a minority) of irish football fans poke fun at rugby fans. They have been very fair in dealing with irish football through the years.
It can hold 49k for rugby afaik.Quote:
Originally Posted by vega007
Reading in the IT today that only 1 appeal to the planning permission. I am not sure if date has closed yet for appeal submission as 6 weeks from planning approval to submit.
This is excellent news & looks like very good chance be on schedule.
Says the appeal is from local resident
- complaints include height of stadium as she & feet from the stadium boundary
- wants land outside home to be only used for VIPs & simialr access
- looking for alternative parking arrangements as cannot park outside her house on match day,
They all seem trivial enough for compromise to be sorted.
:ball:
That's very suprising. Excellent news if that's the only appeal.
4 weeks remain....residents groups have not gone away ye know.....if its too good to be true etc etc
Did I read somewhere that an bord pleanala were to announce their decision today? Any news on it?
I think it was delayed for another month.
Im not too sure though.
An Bord Pleanala have until the 22nd of March to make its decision.
What happens if its rejected, the IRFU have other options (as mentioned in last weeks SBP) but what about us ???
"Industry sources speculate that McNamara may also be willing to do a swap deal with the IRFU for Lansdowne Road if they do not receive planning permission. McNamara owns the nearby Glass Bottle Site in Ringsend, which has previously been touted as a viable location for a national stadium.
McNamara headed a consortium that acquired the site for €400 million last year from South Wharf and Dublin Port.
Another scenario could see the IRFU sell the ground to a property developer, and opt to build a stadium at Newland’s Cross in west Dublin, where they own significant land."
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/st...585-qqqx=1.asp
I think the IGB site would be more likely than Newlands, if Lansdowne went oval-shaped, so to speak, keeping it in D4.