Squad for Georgia named

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20/01/2009, 2:15 PM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by the doc

Fair enough, point taken!

D'mind him Doc.... Stand by your Manlove!!!
20/01/2009, 2:17 PM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

but thats down to circumstance, and that circumstance is yearly i.e. seasonal. For example John O'Shea or Ward/delaney etc....

Exactly which is why I am saying it shouldn't be determined one way or the other. John O'Shea not gettin a game because Utd have Evra shouldn't exclude him from the Irish set up but neither should a Championship player be excluded simply for being a Championship player.
20/01/2009, 2:58 PM
the doc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

When that's team of the week in a top league maybe he'll be worth looking at seriously. There's a reason why no Premiership teams have come in for him and why he's not on the squad.

So tell me how many Premiership teams have come in for Bruce?

It's common knowledge at PNE that Premiership teams are looking at St Ledger, with Everton believed to have 1st option should another club make a bid.
20/01/2009, 3:00 PM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by the doc

It's common knowledge at PNE that Premiership teams are looking at St Ledger, with Everton believed to have 1st option should another club make a bid.

Is this his agent?
20/01/2009, 3:28 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

Exactly which is why I am saying it shouldn't be determined one way or the other. John O'Shea not gettin a game because Utd have Evra shouldn't exclude him from the Irish set up but neither should a Championship player be excluded simply for being a Championship player.

Yer last sentence isn't exactly what i was trying to get across. I was basically saying that in general on average over a few years, those in the premiership squads are there for a reason as opposed to Championship players.
20/01/2009, 3:29 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by the doc

So tell me how many Premiership teams have come in for Bruce?

It's common knowledge at PNE that Premiership teams are looking at St Ledger, with Everton believed to have 1st option should another club make a bid.

what do you mean by that 1st option if another club bid, they either want him or they dont.
20/01/2009, 3:40 PM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Yer last sentence isn't exactly what i was trying to get across. I was basically saying that in general on average over a few years, those in the premiership squads are there for a reason as opposed to Championship players.

Right, I agree. I was referring more to the Premier Lge squad players of a more recent nature like Whelan, Folan, Gibson, etc.
20/01/2009, 4:56 PM
The Fly

I would have liked to have seen Marc Wilson in the squad.
He will get a call-up sooner or later though.
20/01/2009, 5:06 PM
FahyForever

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonnieB

You want Ireland in the squad? Then pray tell how you get him in the squad? They have met with him, he refused and said he will let them know if he wishes to be arsed to play. Should they kidnap him and drop him on the middle of the pitch?

**** Stephen Ireland and all this bull**** around him. He has been given every opportunity to come back if he so wishes. He doesn't wish to take up the position so let him **** off and die for all I care.

I�m sure Stephen Ireland is concerned about what you care. Typing swear words will really rattle his cage. Do you think it�s fun to write about someone�s death on a forum because he doesn�t want to play
football for some football team? Grow up.
20/01/2009, 5:16 PM
stiffler

I think we have more fringe players of a decent standard now than what we have had for a good number of years.

A B friendly would be ideal to bring a few of these lads on, and let the management see how they perform in training etc
20/01/2009, 5:46 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Except that Nolan never played for the full England team, so believe is still eligible(Two Irish parents), but agree is unlikely!

He played competitive underage football for England and is now well over 21 so has lost his chance to switch horses. Old debate on foot.ie at this stage - probably before you joined - but trust me, he ain't even eligible.
20/01/2009, 9:26 PM
Diarmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

When that's team of the week in a top league maybe he'll be worth looking at seriously. There's a reason why no Premiership teams have come in for him and why he's not on the squad.

Do you ever think before you post or are you just happy to run around contradicting yourself every chance you get?
20/01/2009, 10:08 PM
richieos

can somebody please explain something to me? is there 2 ciarans going around, or is there just one who makes no sense? because if so hes taking away the credibility of this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

I'd say it was St Ledger he was looking at. We just don't have the luxury to ignore quality centre backs playing well at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

When that's team of the week in a top league maybe he'll be worth looking at seriously. There's a reason why no Premiership teams have come in for him and why he's not on the squad.
20/01/2009, 10:18 PM
Razors left peg

and those 2 posts were in the space of a couple of days
21/01/2009, 8:47 AM
Dr. Ogba

There's only 2 Ciarans

we should make that some kind of foot.ie chant
21/01/2009, 10:26 AM
the doc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

What I meant "shockingly" does make sense. We don't have the luxury for trap to ignore St.Ledger entirely and he didn't he looked at him and surely considered him. What I meant was that he should be considered and not discarded simply because he plays for Preston.

And I think he was considered and judged not to be good enough by Trap and I'm willing to trust that judgement.

If thats the case then we must be worried about Trapps judgement of players!
21/01/2009, 10:35 AM
dr_peepee

Has there been any indication of another 'B' match??
21/01/2009, 10:53 AM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

What'd be the value of a B match during the critical part of the qualifiers? He knows his strongest squad now.

He knows his favourite squad anyway, whatever about his strongest.
21/01/2009, 12:04 PM
third policeman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

And I think he was considered and judged not to be good enough by Trap and I'm willing to trust that judgement.

The only problem is that in order to trust in Trapp's judgement I have to ignore the evidence of my own senses and the accumulated judgements of numerous other better qualified and better informed judges. St Ledger regularly makes Championship team of the week, he is PNE's player of the year and he is being watched by a number of Premiership managers. Bruce was off-loaded by his own father, has struggled to keep a place at centre back, was seeminlgy available for transfer. His career trajectory (notwithstanding the sureeal suggestions of a move to Italy) is clearly downward, whilst St Ledger is growing in ability and reputation and could be playing Premiership football next season.

Trapp has seen St Ledger once and I am pretty confident that his exclusion is not based on a considered assessment of his playing merits vis-a-vis Bruce or McShane, but simply reflects a stubborn reluctance to countenance change.
21/01/2009, 1:06 PM
geysir

I can't figure out how Bruce qualifies for us.
In fact, I think he doesn't qualify.
Purely in the football interests of the team I'm tempted to squeal but that goes against nature.
21/01/2009, 1:22 PM
tetsujin1979

His grandmother is from the north, so he qualifies for an Irish passport
21/01/2009, 1:37 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

His grandmother is from the north, so he qualifies for an Irish passport

Possibly that was enough in the past when Bruce was first declared. If so then it was a loophole.

It is clear to me now, that since june 08, an Irish passport for English born is not enough, his grandmother (born after 1921) would have to have been born in the territory of the FAI.
21/01/2009, 2:01 PM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

What'd be the value of a B match during the critical part of the qualifiers? He knows his strongest squad now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

He knows his favourite squad anyway, whatever about his strongest.

Ha!! Well said, man.

I asked about the 'B' squad because it seams the only way into the first team squad...
21/01/2009, 2:14 PM
third policeman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

But either way the most important point here that anyone who knows anything about the game can agree on. Bench or not St.Ledger would not make the first team and bar an injury to two of O'Shea, McShane and Dunne would have no part whatsoever to play. Let Bruce have his token bench cameo, it's not impacting the team in any way.

Agree Ciaran, but I have been really impressed by O'Shea's performances at LB for United. If St Ledger did shape up he could be in contention to partner Dunne with O'Shea replacing Kilbane. Killer's a fantastic servant and a decent stand-in at LB, but this has never been his natural position.
21/01/2009, 2:26 PM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by third policeman

The only problem is that in order to trust in Trapp's judgement I have to ignore the evidence of my own senses and the accumulated judgements of numerous other better qualified and better informed judges.

Please name them :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by third policeman

St Ledger regularly makes Championship team of the week, he is PNE's player of the year and he is being watched by a number of Premiership managers. Bruce was off-loaded by his own father, has struggled to keep a place at centre back, was seeminlgy available for transfer. His career trajectory (notwithstanding the sureeal suggestions of a move to Italy) is clearly downward, whilst St Ledger is growing in ability and reputation and could be playing Premiership football next season.

Brilliant - now we know. Would you have St Ledger ahead of Dunne or JOSH? Yes or No. If the answer is no, your basic criticism is that Trapattoni choses not to include a player that you fancy (in more ways than one by the sound of things) and this has lead you to question his abilities and knowledge of the game :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by third policeman

Trapp has seen St Ledger once and I am pretty confident that his exclusion is not based on a considered assessment of his playing merits vis-a-vis Bruce or McShane, but simply reflects a stubborn reluctance to countenance change.

He's given his reasons. You chose to ignore them - who's the stubborn one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by third policeman

Agree Ciaran, but I have been really impressed by O'Shea's performances at LB for United. If St Ledger did shape up he could be in contention to partner Dunne with O'Shea replacing Kilbane. Killer's a fantastic servant and a decent stand-in at LB, but this has never been his natural position.

So you'd chose to break up our best central defensive partnership for 15 odd years to accomodate St Ledger? Is that your qualified judgement or the opinion of your better informed judges?
21/01/2009, 3:02 PM
third policeman

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

Please name them :D

Brilliant - now we know. Would you have St Ledger ahead of Dunne or JOSH? Yes or No. If the answer is no, your basic criticism is that Trapattoni choses not to include a player that you fancy (in more ways than one by the sound of things) and this has lead you to question his abilities and knowledge of the game :rolleyes:

He's given his reasons. You chose to ignore them - who's the stubborn one?

So you'd chose to break up our best central defensive partnership for 15 odd years to accomodate St Ledger? Is that your qualified judgement or the opinion of your better informed judges?

Where should I begin? Life's too short. These are opinions, just like yours but different. I dont have the time or inclination to defend them to you. I've got better things to do like organising a dream date with Sean St Ledger.
21/01/2009, 3:07 PM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

He's given his reasons. You chose to ignore them - who's the stubborn one?

I haven't heard Trapp give any reason for selecting Bruce nor can I think of one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

So you'd chose to break up our best central defensive partnership for 15 odd years to accomodate St Ledger? Is that your qualified judgement or the opinion of your better informed judges?

Best centre back pairing in 15yrs- I'll reserve judgement on that one until I see them keep a more formidable opponent than Cyprus or Montenegro at bay. They look solid enough though.

I don't really get this whole 'Don't question Trapp' attitude when it's quite clear that some of his decisions are highly debatable to say the least.
21/01/2009, 3:08 PM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by third policeman

Where should I begin? Life's too short. These are opinions, just like yours but different. I dont have the time or inclination to defend them to you. I've got better things to do like organising a dream date with Sean St Ledger.

Nicely done!
21/01/2009, 4:23 PM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by third policeman

Where should I begin? Life's too short. These are opinions, just like yours but different. I dont have the time or inclination to defend them to you. I've got better things to do like organising a dream date with Sean St Ledger.

If your not prepare to defend your opinions why post them? :confused:

I've no problem with St Ledger coming into the squad btw but Trapattoni has had a look at him and didn't fancy him. So that's one person less you have to worry about while you try to get that dream date girlfriend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

I haven't heard Trapp give any reason for selecting Bruce nor can I think of one.

Maybe you should listen to what he has to say then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

I don't really get this whole 'Don't question Trapp' attitude when it's quite clear that some of his decisions are highly debatable to say the least.

By all means question him. But I'd prefer to listen and understand his thinking, respect what he has achieved in the game and reserve my judgement until the current qualifying campaign is over.
21/01/2009, 4:57 PM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

By all means question him. But I'd prefer to listen and understand his thinking, respect what he has achieved in the game and reserve my judgement until the current qualifying campaign is over.

I'm glad I have your permission. It'd be a very exciting forum if everybody would stop voicing their day to day opinions and wait until the end of the qualifying campaign and see where we stand then.
21/01/2009, 5:46 PM
FarBeag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciaran

In fairness 2 years ago McShane was winning player of the year awards with West Brom and was winning championship plaudits left right and centre.

Then he made the step up and struggled at the highest level. If you throw St Ledger into the same situation what makes you think he won't go the same way? Because he played well in a meaningless cup game against Liverpool?

I mean really, talking about dropping Killer for this guy is Football Manager drivel, Trap didn't get where he is today by breaking up a settled back 4 to accommodate some borderline championship player with no experience at the top level. No sane manager in the world would put him into the team.

Why can�t you just get adult to check what you have written before you post because you clearly need some sort of guidance? You continually contradict yourself, surely you can see this?
21/01/2009, 5:57 PM
Stuttgart88

In fairness, I agree that playing Sledge at CB and replacing KK with JOS would be madness.

However I'd offer the view that Sledge looks to have a lot of quality and my opinion is that he's capable of moving up a level. He has far more finesse than McShane and looks a better player at Championship level than McShane did.
21/01/2009, 7:01 PM
shakermaker1982

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

In fairness, I agree that playing Sledge at CB and replacing KK with JOS would be madness.

However I'd offer the view that Sledge looks to have a lot of quality and my opinion is that he's capable of moving up a level. He has far more finesse than McShane and looks a better player at Championship level than McShane did.

The ideal time for the manager to try this (i.e. O'Shea at LB and St Ledger at CB) was against Poland. If St Ledger impressed then the Trap would be confident he could do a job if ever required. Instead he went with the strongest side available to him and we got tanked. That is what frustrates me so much about the Trap. He's too risk averse and if plan A (6 defenders and 4 attackers) fails in a big game what the hell are we going to do?

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