Keith Fahey

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

I want to point out that Ireland are very well covered in central midfield at the moment.

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We have lots of bodies but not much proven quality.

Over the last couple of years the following players have played for us in midfield: Douglas, Miller, Potter, Gibson, A. Reid, S. Reid, G Whelan, Carsley, Kilbane.

The Reids are quality players but S is injury prone and A is not in favor right now.

Quality-wise it's a big drop from Brady, R Whelan, Keane, McGrath, Townsend days. Heck who wouldn't take Holland & kinsella in a heart beat now, when Carsley couldn't get a look in.

We have some decent prospects, but Potter & Gibson appear to have stagnated. I would really like to see Garvan in the squad.

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Originally Posted by gaffer 2008

in my experience people who watch the games live on tv have a lesser understanding of the game because they can see players movement,team shape etc when the ball is up the other end of the pitch. you just dont get that on tv. So people who sit in the stands have a better opinion on the game than armchair supporters.

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That really depends on the view you have. If you're behind the goals you really don't get to see that much. Poor seats don't allow for much analysis. Again though, outside those who are licensed or do it for a living there is no difference between someone who goes to a few EI games and someone who watches PL games on TV.

Ad hominemns aside, to suggest otherwise is just condescending.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Sweet jesus...

I know all I need to do about this poster now

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Happy to put my knowledge of football against yours. I'm comfortable in my own skin and don't need to pretend or claim to be a "true fan" to appreciate the game on just as many levels as you do.

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

Listen fergie's son,you think it comes down to how much a player earns:o,enough said you know sfa about football.

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Either you are being intentionally obtuse or English isn't your first language so I'll try and simplify it for you:

Objective criteria exists. Using said criteria indicates that Fahey is not good enough at this point in time.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Happy to put my knowledge of football against yours. I'm comfortable in my own skin and don't need to pretend or claim to be a "true fan" to appreciate the game on just as many levels as you do.

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how do you mean? sitting on the armchair, sitting cross ways on the armchair, balancing you dinner on your lap on the armchair, behind the armchair for a penalty shoot-out, on the edge of the armchair for exciting bits... yeah, lots of different levels for you to appreciate the game alright...

mwah hahahahaha

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Originally Posted by disabledrog

Bennetts first game for southampton was a disaster and he was hauled off at half time, dont think he played much for them after dat and it was them who didnt extend his loan.
he is now playing in league two

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He got back in the side and started about ten consecutive games, made the Championship TOTW but was re-called. Burley had requested an extension to the loan.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...046916,00.html

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Objective criteria exists. Using said criteria indicates that Fahey is not good enough at this point in time.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Sure you can. We use money to value people all the time. We call it wages. Forget transfer amounts and focus on what someone is willing to pay a player week in and week out. Clearly there are enough professionals in the game that don't deem Fahey to be worth significant wages.

Perhaps they are not "real" football fans but they probably know a thing or two about the game. Enough of them don't rate him. That might change. I hope it does but until it does I highly doubt that he is good enough for the Irish starting XI.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Let's put subjectivity to one side. That is, arguing over who we think is a good player or not.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

In this case it's quite simple, money

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

People who make their actual living in the game currently do not rate Fahey at a level where they are willing to spend significant sums paying him. As such, under objective criteria a player who is making 10k a week versus one who is making 1k a week is most likely to be the better player

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:rolleyes::o

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

:rolleyes::o

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:D I know.

Ffs we had average fringe players on teh same money as some of the best players in teh league at other clubs.

All wages tell you is how stupid some people running clubs are

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

:rolleyes::o

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People are being a bit confused here. we are trying to compare players from 2 different league systems and this is always difficult. Was Henrik Larsson a great scorer or was he playing in a weak league. Was he better than Shevchenko. Well he scored more goals but the defences were weaker so......


There are a few ways of comparing Fahey with other players.

Subjectively, someone can say I've seen both and I think X is better, the problem with this is why would I trust someone else's opinion. The number of games they watch (either in real life or on TV) is probably not relevant. It just shows interest not competence. That's why I would rely on someone whose opinion I trust (e.g Trap).

The other option is to create some objective way to comapre. Irish club sides dont play English teams in competitive matches to really know if St Pat's are better than Cardiff/Wolves etc. You can create conkers-like ladders but it's a bit tenuous. (does anyone think Hull are better than Porto).

So in this free market era (still) there is a competitive market in players. Players are heavily motivated by money and tend to go where they are paid best. The idea is that the competitive nature of football and the number of managers out there mean that players tend to be paid what they are worth. Money is not a perfect science. David Beckham is paid a fortune but is not in the top 100 players in the world. But it's a good guide.

By the way I suspect Fahey will be playing for Wolves by this time next year!!

I've gone on record more than once stating that the current crop of LOI players aren't good enough to play for Ireland but having been at the Pats match I'm (sort of) converted....there is no way in hell Liam Miller or Darren Potter should be getting picked ahead of Fahy in his current form

One point in relation to all the nonsense being spouted on this thread.

Making it at the top level in the game has as much to do with luck as ability. Both have to be present to make the breakthrough, many's a gifted player that never got a chance because a manager didn't fancy him or he didn't get the breaks when another player of the same talent did get them.

To suggest wages is some sort of barometer is naive in the extreme. There's only room for a certain number of 'elite' players, ability is a big part of what elevates players to that level but it's by no means the only factor.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

One point in relation to all the nonsense being spouted on this thread.

Making it at the top level in the game has as much to do with luck as ability. Both have to be present to make the breakthrough, many's a gifted player that never got a chance because a manager didn't fancy him or he didn't get the breaks when another player of the same talent did get them.

To suggest wages is some sort of barometer is naive in the extreme. There's only room for a certain number of 'elite' players, ability is a big part of what elevates players to that level but it's by no means the only factor.

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Luck may be a factor in some instances but I think are there are simply too many leagues and teams to realistically suggest that a good player will be consistently unlucky. So while luck does play a role a relatively efficient market like football will generally even out such factors as good and bad luck.

Put another way, the market currently suggests that Fahey is not good enough to make the same salary as a player currently playing in the English Championship or perhaps even in the SPL or the Scottish first division. As such, we can concur that, as it currently stands, he's not (over the long term one off games excluded) at that level. Over time, his good or bad luck won't be relevant because if he is good enough he'll be picked up.

Currently, he is very unlikely to play for the senior team. At 25 years of age it's also not a given that he will ever be elevated to a higher level. I'm hoping he does but it's not too likely. I'll note that he did play for Arsenal and Aston Villa (their youth clubs).

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Put another way, the market currently suggests that Fahey is not good enough to make the same salary as a player currently playing in the English Championship or perhaps even in the SPL or the Scottish first division.

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Which second tier Scottish clubs are going to match the top tier here?

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Luck may be a factor in some instances but I think are there are simply too many leagues and teams to realistically suggest that a good player will be consistently unlucky. So while luck does play a role a relatively efficient market like football will generally even out such factors as good and bad luck.

Put another way, the market currently suggests that Fahey is not good enough to make the same salary as a player currently playing in the English Championship or perhaps even in the SPL or the Scottish first division. As such, we can concur that, as it currently stands, he's not (over the long term one off games excluded) at that level. Over time, his good or bad luck won't be relevant because if he is good enough he'll be picked up.

Currently, he is very unlikely to play for the senior team. At 25 years of age it's also not a given that he will ever be elevated to a higher level. I'm hoping he does but it's not too likely. I'll note that he did play for Arsenal and Aston Villa (their youth clubs).

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aston villa signed him from arsenal as a senior player, for a fee of 75k i think. Unfortunately he didnt make the grade there.
He is more than good enough for the SPL never mind the first division. I daresay he could even do a job in the English premier league when compared to Keith Andrews

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Originally Posted by inexile

aston villa signed him from arsenal as a senior player, for a fee of 75k i think. Unfortunately he didnt make the grade there.
He is more than good enough for the SPL never mind the first division. I daresay he could even do a job in the English premier league when compared to Keith Andrews

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Are you having a laugh? He's currently playing in a semi-professional league in Ireland ffs. He's hardly an up and coming prospect either.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

'fergie son' you are an idiot...if you really dont think an SPL club would buy fahey if they could you are seriously seriously deluded.

good lad though keep watching the brilliant wonderful premiership like a good little barstooler.

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That's a constructive post. Rather than focus on the issues, attack the poster.

Why couldn't an SPL club purchase Fahey? I'd imagine most have the money, and, at 25 he's heading into his prime. Fact is, they haven't purchased him which suggests he just isn't good enough.

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

Are you having a laugh? He's currently playing in a semi-professional league in Ireland ffs. He's hardly an up and coming prospect either.

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Evidently, if you go to an EI game (by the way lads, I've been to many EI games and was a season ticket holder with Shels) you have an insight into a player's ability. An insight to their brilliance that only you (and the player's mother) can see. No one else mind you. Like a professional scout. What would they know, the bar stoolers.

Look, I hope he makes it but I doubt he will.

the last i heard the top LOI teams could offer higher wages to players than they would get in scotland hence the lack of players moving there.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

That's a constructive post. Rather than focus on the issues, attack the poster.

Why couldn't an SPL club purchase Fahey? I'd imagine most have the money, and, at 25 he's heading into his prime. Fact is, they haven't purchased him which suggests he just isn't good enough.

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:eek:You are been serious:o

You are some joker.:DLOL.

there is another flaw in young fergie son argument..he bases his opinion on that fahey hasn't interested other managers...how does he know this?

I would ****ing love if Trapattoni called him up.

One thing that could count against Fahey in a scout's eye (whether for international or club recognition) is his maverick style of play. He is undoubtedly talented, with an ability to go past people and pass the ball, but the best central midfielders are those who can make space for themselves off the ball, get into good positions to receive it in that space, and thus to dictate the pace of a game.

From what I've seen of Fahey, he tries very hard to make himself available, but he's not great at making space for himself off the ball. Several times when he got the ball against Hertha, he found himself marked or surrounded; then he had to try dribbling past his marker, trying nutmegs and the like, running with the ball rather than playing it simple. He did this very well, but as a central midfielder these days, when there's so much focus on speed, tactical awareness and athleticism, it's a dangerous way of playing the game.

I remember Houlihan doing the very same things against Deportivo for Shels in 2004, doing some breathtaking things, but eventually getting caught in possession, and was culpable in that manner for Depor's opener in the Riazor. If Fahey went to the Championship, he'd probably end up shunted out on the wing, just as Houlihan has been for Norwich.

(edit) - as I'm extolling the virtues of simple, effective midfield play, I must say I thought Gary Dempsey was very impressive in this respect against Hertha. But maybe that's just Wexfordian bias! ;)

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Originally Posted by irishultra

I would ****ing love if Trapattoni called him up.

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He won't. There's been no-one from the international set-up to watch Pats since Tardelli came to the Linfield game back around April/May.

And Pats turned down a bid from England for Fats during the summer Fergie's Son...

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Pats have already turned down close to half a million for him.

Really no point putting eircom league players in the Ireland section because you just get the usual arguments for the usual suspects.

Fahey is easily good enough to be in the Irish B squad IMO.

And just to pick YoungIrish up on one thing, he didn't fail at Arsenal. He didn't like living in London so Aston Villa paid £250,000 for a 17 year old nearly 8 years ago. He got homesick at Villa and came home with a year left on his contract.

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Fergie's Son, I posted the above a good few pages back, not sure if you saw it and ignored it or just missed it.

Just to add to it, Fahey earns more than a lot of lower level championship players and League 1 players.

And no Scottish PL club (aside from the Old Firm) never mind First Division club could afford Fahey.

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Originally Posted by charliesboots

And no Scottish PL club (aside from the Old Firm) never mind First Division club could afford Fahey.

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What would you realistically put his transfer value at? Bearing in mind the total of the previous transfers of "the best player in the league" have barely crossed the £1m mark.

Apparently a German side have made an offer for Fahey to Move in January. No details on the amount

Hertha Berlin accordning to Newstalk this morning.

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Originally Posted by charliesboots

Fergie's Son, I posted the above a good few pages back, not sure if you saw it and ignored it or just missed it.

Just to add to it, Fahey earns more than a lot of lower level championship players and League 1 players.

And no Scottish PL club (aside from the Old Firm) never mind First Division club could afford Fahey.

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The sad thing about this is that there seems to be an attitude that Fahey being called up would be a victory against fans of the Irish team. I will be quite happy if he is called up because I trust Trap's opinion over mere mortals like us.

Long term of course he will not stay at St Pat's if he is a regular squad member. Wolves/Sunderland & Reading's addiction to Irish players would see to that and I'd be surprised if St Pat's turned down a 1 million bid. I would also have some concern about pickinhg him regulalry if he is playing week in and week out against other eL teams. This is the same issue I have with McGeady. I'd rather an Irish international play in the Championship than in the SPL or eL as I think there is a consistent level of competition.

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

I'd rather an Irish international play in the Championship than in the SPL or eL as I think there is a consistent level of competition.

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Nobody could argue with that, but the players should be picked on their own merits, and not the level they're playing at.

If Pats were offered a million, they'd have to accept it IMO

if he does go to germany hopefully it will open the door that stutts has spoken about in the past. I'm not trying to pee off any EL fans but I would like to see more players plying their trade on the continent rather than the championship or lower leagues in england or even SPL. Having said that if EL teams keep selling their better players how will the league actually progress to the next level?! Unless of course they are getting very good money in compensation and then themselves can look abroad to buy players(like in sweden). Hopefully for St Pats sake, they will be well compensated if fahey leaves i.e. a good transfer fee. Anybody know what the amount on offer is?

It insulting but we all know as soon as he signs for Hertha Berlin, Wolves, Sunderland or whoever, he will instantly be deemed good enough. Why is it still so hard for armchair football "fans" to accept that it is possible that decent players exist in the League of Ireland?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Nobody could argue with that, but the players should be picked on their own merits, and not the level they're playing at.

If Pats were offered a million, they'd have to accept it IMO

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They should be picked on merit but I think a player will be better for us if playing in a tougher league. In the short term it would be ok but long term they will develop better if playing in the championship. Fahey's biggest problem is likely to be that he is competing with a larg-ish number of players for a very small number of places (Trap seems to intend to play no attack minded central midfielders). If only he was a left back!

I honestly don't know the reason for that. Its very strange. For example the Croatian League which I wouldn't say is too far off the standard of the LOI has produced players like Modric, Eduardo and corluka etc...all were selected in a successful croatian team while playing in croatia.

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Originally Posted by GuisaSaigon

It insulting but we all know as soon as he signs for Hertha Berlin, Wolves, Sunderland or whoever, he will instantly be deemed good enough. Why is it still so hard for armchair football "fans" to accept that it is possible that decent players exist in the League of Ireland?

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Firstly, thats the way of the world, Saha was only called up to the French squad when he moved from Fulham to Man Utd.

Anyway I dont think that move on it's own would get him a place. What it would give him is a chance to prove himself regularly. If he goes to Wolves and fails to get in the squad he won't be playing for Ireland. If he does and plays well he has a chance (though look at Stephen Ward).

There are as many players based in England who don't seem to get a chance as there are in Ireland. I dont know why Gibson/Potter/Douglas and Miller keep getting called up when Rowlands/Quinn/Lawrence dont but that may be because I'm not a good enough judge.

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

There are as many players based in England who don't seem to get a chance as there are in Ireland. I dont know why Gibson/Potter/Douglas and Miller keep getting called up when Rowlands/Quinn/Lawrence dont but that may be because I'm not a good enough judge.

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I know what you're saying but the 3 you mentioned have been involved with several squads. They have been givena chance, and maybe they proved they weren't good enough.

the thing is how good is fahey? people say we are weak in midfield, but we actually have a big selection of potentional midfielders.

will fahey be playing against bray tonight?

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Originally Posted by irishultra

the thing is how good is fahey? people say we are weak in midfield, but we actually have a big selection of potentional midfielders.

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Problem is that too many of our potentially better players are not getting a chance in the full squad (mcCann, garvan, McCarthy et al). Not surprised that fcahey is getting a move to Germany, He is clearly a class player

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Originally Posted by irishultra

will fahey be playing against bray tonight?

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I hope not. Pat's are playing Finn Harps!

lmao...away..forgot....it was meant to be on tv right?

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Originally Posted by irishultra

lmao...away..forgot....it was meant to be on tv right?

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It was meant to be on telly alright but because Bohs can win the league tonight RTE are showing that game instead. I’m not sure if Fahey will play or not tonight. He might be rested after Tuesday’s match.