Provisional Licence D-Day

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Originally Posted by oldyouth

Firstly, someone who has been driving for a couple of years should have passed their test. If you have failed, what does that say other than you are not ready to drive independantly.
Secondly, a qualified driver with you can impart advice, guidance and experience. That was a silly point

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1) up until last couple of months the waiting times were ridiculous so no ,someone who was driving for a couple of years probably got there test once if it all.
2) I disagree with your point that having a qualified driver with someone who has been driving a few years is any use. Why are they driving a few years without a full licence? the waiting times were ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Then the only option is moving to a situation whereby learners can only drive either on private property or with a registered driving instruction in the car.

The current law is certain less stupid and ill thought on that the previous one.

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Well then the fault lies with the law makers not the drivers.

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

1) up until last couple of months the waiting times were ridiculous so no ,someone who was driving for a couple of years probably got there test once if it all.
2) I disagree with your point that having a qualified driver with someone who has been driving a few years is any use. Why are they driving a few years without a full licence? the waiting times were ridiculous.


Well then the fault lies with the law makers not the drivers.

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Are you trying to argue the current law should've been left alone?

You're aren't being particularly clear on what you think should happen.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The current law is certain less stupid and ill thought on that the previous one.

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Unless the new one is properly enforced, it's just as useless.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Are you trying to argue the current law should've been left alone?

You're aren't being particularly clear on what you think should happen.

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Im saying that the way the law was introduced has inconvenienced a lot of people who wouldnt have been in this position if it wasnt for the fact that the authorities failed to deal with the back logs in tests. 18 months in most places up until very recently. You should put yourself in their position and show a bit of understanding of other people before getting all high and mighty about a process you have said yourself you have never even had to endure.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Unless the new one is properly enforced, it's just as useless.

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What is the punishment/fine if provisional licence holder caught driving unattended? Is it penalty points or do they have to walk home?

:confused:

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Im saying that the way the law was introduced has inconvenienced a lot of people who wouldnt have been in this position if it wasnt for the fact that the authorities failed to deal with the back logs in tests. 18 months in most places up until very recently. You should put yourself in their position and show a bit of understanding of other people before getting all high and mighty about a process you have said yourself you have never even had to endure.

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The average waiting time was 12 months, not 18. But that was a year ago.

Given the current test waiting times (down below 10 weeks), everyone has had the chance to take at least one test since the announcement a year ago. Surely you don't dispute that?

I'm also not sure why I should show some understanding? I interact with these drivers every day of the week?! Allowing learners on the road on their own (and requiring a driver to be with them definitely reduces the learners opportunity to drive) isn't a zero sum gain. It more than likely causes accidents.

You're defending the indefensible and whilst the old law was patently ridiculous and their are flaws in the current one, that in no way justifies leaving it as is.

Driving is a privilege not a right.

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Originally Posted by pete

What is the punishment/fine if provisional licence holder caught driving unattended? Is it penalty points or do they have to walk home?

:confused:

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I imagine it would be treated the same way as driving while suspended - walking home. I'm just guessing though.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The average waiting time was 12 months, not 18. But that was a year ago.

Given the current test waiting times (down below 10 weeks), everyone has had the chance to take at least one test since the announcement a year ago. Surely you don't dispute that?

I'm also not sure why I should show some understanding? I interact with these drivers every day of the week?! Allowing learners on the road on their on (and requiring a driver to be with them definitely reduces the learners opportunity to drive) isn't a zero sum gain. It more than likely causes accidents.

You're defending the indefensible and whilst the old law was patently ridiculous and their are flaws in the current one, that in no way justifies leaving it as is.

Driving is a privilege not a right.

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Like I said the system was flawed before now and putting our heads in the sands and saying it "this is the way its gonna be" isnt much help to a person who needs the car to get to work and has been working on the basis that they have been able to do this. Bring in the laws by all means but show a bit of compassion to people who are the victims of stupidity and incompetance in governance.

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Like I said the system was flawed before now and putting our heads in the sands and saying it "this is the way its gonna be" isnt much help to a person who needs the car to get to work and has been working on the basis that they have been able to do this. Bring in the laws by all means but show a bit of compassion to people who are the victims of stupidity and incompetance in governance.

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How long do you show compassion for? At some stage its got to be enforced.

Anyway I think the guards have basically said in the last few weeks that they aren't going to enforce it.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

How long do you show compassion for? At some stage its got to be enforced.
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I agree. But the way it was done was wrong. I am merely pointing out that just cause it doesnt affect you or me doesnt mean it isnt a monumental pain in the hole for other people. A pain that isnt entirely their own making.

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Like I said the system was flawed before now and putting our heads in the sands and saying it "this is the way its gonna be" isnt much help to a person who needs the car to get to work and has been working on the basis that they have been able to do this. Bring in the laws by all means but show a bit of compassion to people who are the victims of stupidity and incompetance in governance.

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Billthoughts, I don't like the way you debate on this site. ORA has tackled your argument with facts and figures and you have ignored these statements completely and continued with an ethereal argument that has no place in a Current Affairs forum. You need to change the way you post in here or find another place to discuss these subjects.

On this topic in particular, you need to refrain from replying immediately unless you're going to respond with anything other than repetitive emotional claptrap.

adam

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

I agree. But the way it was done was wrong. I am merely pointing out that just cause it doesnt affect you or me doesnt mean it isnt a monumental pain in the hole for other people. A pain that isnt entirely their own making.

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They knew it was coming in a year ago. Then it got pushed back by a whole year. Waiting times for tests are now 2-3 months, and the pass rates are unusually high, either because people are taking the deadline seriously or because of some lax standards in texting. There's no excuse for not having gotten your licence in the last 12 months if you really, really need it and aren't completely incompetent.

Colleague at work said that her brother had to cancel his test 3 times in the last 6 or so months due to the fact he was on holidays & other unavoidable circumstances. I got the impression he was not complaining about it but it also shows that it has been possible to get a test & the authorities have been making an effort to accommodate people.

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Originally Posted by John83

They knew it was coming in a year ago. Then it got pushed back by a whole year. Waiting times for tests are now 2-3 months, and the pass rates are unusually high, either because people are taking the deadline seriously or because of some lax standards in texting. There's no excuse for not having gotten your licence in the last 12 months if you really, really need it and aren't completely incompetent.

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:confused: they only came out with the plan in november, and at that time tried to tell us they were doing it the next monday!

As late as November? I'd thought earlier. Anyway, that's still more than seven months, and plenty of time.

My sister got 2 tests between then and now.

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Originally Posted by John83

As late as November? I'd thought earlier. Anyway, that's still more than seven months, and plenty of time.

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Plenty of time in some places maybe but in those 7 months I've gotten 1 test date and became one of the 1/3 due to a mix up about test centres. I applied afterwards and still haven't got another date. Compared to systems in much more populous countries where you're almost guaranteed a license within a few weeks, its a poor system. I'm all for controlling standards but this does nothing except criminalise a few hundred thousand of our workforce. If they'd even waited until the waiting list came down to 2 weeks, it'd be at least manageable.

Is there a few hundred thousand with 2nd provisionals? For all the hullabaloo, they were the only one's effected by the law change (which goes back to my point about enforcement).

Its hard to have sympathy for people in this one, If you are on your first/3rd provisional this doesn’t affect you as you are not aloud to drive on your own anyway, just because it was enforced doesn’t mean it was ok, everyone knows the rules.

If your on your 2nd you have been driving for a minimum of 2 years and I think you have to have done at least 1 test to get your 2nd.

When they first tried to bring in the law they did show compassion to the people on 2nds by putting it off by 8 months and reducing the waiting time substantially so no one has an excuse.

If after 2 ½ years driving and failing 2 tests I don’t think you are able to drive properly and therefore shouldn’t be aloud out on your own until you learn to drive to an acceptable standard.

If this was such a big worry about getting to work for people you would think they would have made it there business to pass or organise an alternative.

There was a guy on the last word saying he had no option but to break the law as he had no other way of getting to work. He thought it was a ludicrous suggestion that he would cycle the 3 miles !!!!!!

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Compared to systems in much more populous countries where you're almost guaranteed a license within a few weeks......

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Do you mean guaranteed a test ?
I wouldnt have much confidence in a system where anyone could walk away with a licence within a few weeks :eek:
Where is this more poulous country - India perhaps :D

The national average wait for a test here is down to 7.5 weeks.
I know several people who have applied for and taken (and passed) thir test since this deadline was announced - also I know several people who would have no intention of getting around to taking a test anytime soon without having their hand forced.