Anger at 'lazy' Roma remarks

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Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

OK fair point, well made. I wish I could make my points as clearly, as Im obviously coming across as a racist muppet when I'm really trying not to

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Its not really racism though, is it? Racism is the belief that one race is pre inclined to be better or worse than another. Idiocy, I'm sure you'll agree.

However, Romas are ethnically from the Indian subcontinent. Are Pakistanis out begging, or are they often doctors? Indians seem more inclined to start businesses than the Irish, and I would venture have a 100% employment rate in this country. "Roma" is a culture, not a race, and a culture is a shared set of values (I had a lng, long discussion with Erstwhile Bohz about this ages ago). If some of those values in a culture are reprehensible, such as our propensity to get drunk and injure ourselves and others, or gypsies' inclination to beg and (many/most/some) steal, pointing that out makes you no more a racist than if I were to point out that arab culture devalues women or that the Dutch are generally liberal.

Jaysus GavinZac you've a way with words, thats exactly what I've been getting at(badly). It's the cultural pre-disposition of a large proportion of Roma to consider a way of life that to most of us is deplorable and to most of them an acceptable existence

Call it what you want, I don't want to see any more of this "I met three people of a certain category and they were beggars therefore all of the category are beggars" crap here or anywhere else on Foot.ie. Drop it, both of ye, now, and get back on topic or I'll throw one or both out for trolling instead.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Call it what you want, I don't want to see any more of this "I met three people of a certain category and they were beggars therefore all of the category are beggars" crap here or anywhere else on Foot.ie. Drop it, both of ye, now, and get back on topic or I'll throw one or both out for trolling instead.

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I think that trivializes the arguement somewhat. In all honestly if I could say that I met three of them who were not beggers then I would be a lot more hesitant to generalize them all beggars unfortunately I have met bucket's loads more than three and as yet have not met one who hadn't begged. any way thats me finished on this topic, there really is nothing more to say

When you've met every single one of them, you'll be qualified to comment. For now, if you post again along those lines or on this off-topic subject, you'll be banned permanently from Current Affairs. Don't say I didn't warn you.

adam

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Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

I think that trivializes the arguement somewhat. In all honestly if I could say that I met three of them who were not beggers then I would be a lot more hesitant to generalize them all beggars unfortunately I have met bucket's loads more than three and as yet have not met one who hadn't begged. any way thats me finished on this topic, there really is nothing more to say

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It's not that long since Irish people slept with pigs and were regarded as red-headed, drunken monkeys, and there you are looking down on other people.
Maybe if the Roma went nuts on cocaine and stabbed each other to death you could relate to them. Culturally, that is.

my opinions on these people is nothing to do with borderline racism, its having to deal with them every single day and their ignorance and aggression in approaching people and making them feel very nervous. So you may think my views are racist but until you deal with them every day dont dismiss anyone as borderline racist.

I would consider myself quite liberal, but any Romas I have ever seen are either begging or stealing.

And what's worse we are becoming such a PC society that if someone points this fact out they are labelled as racist.

I don't know which is more worrying. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

I would consider myself quite liberal, but any Romas I have ever seen are either begging or stealing.

And what's worse we are becoming such a PC society that if someone points this fact out they are labelled as racist.

I don't know which is more worrying. :rolleyes:

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i could not agree with you any more

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Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

I can post links to some interesting historical essays on Roma history and culture to back this up

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Out of being a curious Gheorghe, could you furnish me with such links please? Good man. :)


I don't know much at all (as yet!) about their history and culture, but I'd find it very hard to believe that a cornerstone of their philosophy is to simply be an unabashed scourge on society by stealing and begging from honest folk. They may very well do so more than other people, but unless it has been a general paradigm they have had for eons then you can't say they (as a collective group) should be marginalised and subject to the kind of vitriol they would deserve if it was a basic tenet of their way of life. That's not political correctness gone too far but just simple non-generalisation of a group of people.

If it is shown that they are predisposed to common criminality, and that fact is supported by historical evidence, then there is some merit in arguing that we should pour scorn on them as filthy, thieving gypsies who are an unashamed scourge on society, and who distract us from assisting those who really deserve our help.

Sure they do engage in begging, but, for all we know, they could just be entrenched introspectors who bear a grudge against the world for marginalising them over the centuries and are now getting their own back after their fortune-telling spirituality was rejected as overly heretical! Whatever, I'd try to understand the nature of the beast before attempting to slay it. In other words are they the way they are because that was the path they chose for themselves, or because we've forced them down that path? If it's the former then, regrettably for the sound amongst them, I'd have to say ostracisation is in order.

If there is anything slightly smirk-worthy to be taken from this it is that it would seem the adage of beggars can't be choosers is being controverted as it appears that the beggars of the EU can in fact be choosers and follow the whiff of wealth around the community as they see fit. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people

The Roma are in fairness, similar to Irish Travellers. How many Irish travellers pay tax? Have full time jobs? The Roma seem to have had a much harder time than Irish Travellers. Its hard to see too many poor travellers. I doubt very much if they all have large houses & huge wealth back in Eastern Europe. I saw an article(can’t find it now), where in said they can get €50 here a day begging, while at home it would take them a month to get that. So it’s not hard to see why they are here. I think there needs to be some enforcement of the laws on one side & encouragement for them to get work & become, if they won’t, part of our society.

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Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

Out of being a curious Gheorghe, could you furnish me with such links please? Good man. :)


I

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Interesting Links to Roma history in the UK
More Roma UK Heritage
A Brief history of Roma

Read the first paragraph of this article(written by Roma themselves) to understand why Roma will not work or integrate

Lord God, it's like debating with a defective Bear in the Big Blue House doll sometimes

Bazza go back to your first post and read the bit you wrote about the Big Issue seller at least earning a crust, unlike the Roma as you say. That's you dealt with

InExile, the racist thing has stemmed from me saying that your remark about smacking one of them if they approach you, coupled with Gavin's ban them all rant, and well about ten or so of Block's posts, would find a happy home on **********, which they would.

The users would fit well on sfront too. Enough. Lads, go there if you want to chat with like-minded citizens.