Terry Venables

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

What made Lineker a millionaire was scoring 244 goals in 462 club games at top level, the vast majority of them under other managers. And scoring 48 times for England in 80 appearances, including 11 in 12 World Cup finals games, and none of them under El Tel, might have had something to do with it as well. :rolleyes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker

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wasn't Venables his manager at Barcelona?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Of course, it might be considered that he is "past it", but he's only four years older than e.g. Hodgson, who has at least as many gaps in his record as El Tel(Blackburn, anyone?). Of course, Hodgson has done a fine job with Finland (without actually achieving Qualification, btw), but why do you think he was reduced to applying for the job in charge of a small country which has never qualified for a major tournament in the first place? Especially one where football isn't even the third or fourth sport, never mind the national sport?

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Myth, he actually took a team that had avoided the drop by 2 points the season before, make £7m profit on transfers and qualified them for Europe. Admittedly he had a bad start the next season but was sacked in November when he could have turned it round but they threw a fortune at Brain Kidd instead who was a total disaster.

Show me where there's a Leeds or a Palace (2nd time) or an Australia on Hodgson's record.

I'll give you that most of his work was at a lower level bar Inter and Blackburn but it's a nonsense to say he has as many holes in his record as TV's.....

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

The same Sven Goran Errikson who's a far superior managerial record then Terry Venables? Hmm, who's the bluffer?

* IFK Göteborg
o Svenska Cupen Winners 1979, 1982
o Allsvenskan Champions 1981, 1982
o UEFA Cup Winners 1982
* S.L. Benfica
o Portuguese Liga Champions 1983, 1984, 1991
o Cup of Portugal Winners 1983
o SuperCup Cândido de Oliveira Champions 1989
o European Cup Runners Up 1990
o UEFA Cup Runners Up 1983
* A.S. Roma
o Coppa Italia Winners 1986
* U.C. Sampdoria
o Coppa Italia Winners 1994
* S.S. Lazio
o Coppa Italia Winners 1998, 2000
o Italian Super Cup Winners 1998
o UEFA Cup Winners' Cup Winners 1999
o UEFA Super Cup Winners 1999
o Serie A Champions 2000

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1. The anecdote I quoted was merely a humourous aside to another poster's contention that all footballers are "notoriously thick";
2. Therefore I was not comparing El Tels credentials for the job with those of Sven in the same way as I was e.g. those of Hodgson;
3. Besides, Sven is not a candidate for the ROI job and never will be, until or unless Delaney offers him more money than he's on at City, in which case he'll be over in Dublin quicker than a rat up a drainpipe.

So never mind the "bluffer", just what the Hell was your point? :confused:

I seem to remember some years back venebles threw his hat into the ring for the Wales job, telling the papers about his welsh family and how proud he would be to manage them. The Welsh FA pack together a package which they made clear was stretching them, offering twice the salary of the previous manager (cant remember who). Venebles asked for twice that amount again and refused to consider the job for anything less. In my opinion he is totally motivated by money and in that sense, he has had a successful career.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

wasn't Venables his manager at Barcelona?

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I meant that Venables wasn't the England manager when Lineker got his 80 caps and 48 goals. Lineker was a magnificent player, who played under a number of top coaches and was always going to be a millionaire, irrespective of whether he ever played for Venables.

Therefore, considering he owes neither his career in football nor his wealth to Venables, I can see no special reason which he might have for lying when he praises Venables's coaching acumen.

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

I seem to remember some years back venebles threw his hat into the ring for the Wales job, telling the papers about his welsh family and how proud he would be to manage them. The Welsh FA pack together a package which they made clear was stretching them, offering twice the salary of the previous manager (cant remember who). Venebles asked for twice that amount again and refused to consider the job for anything less. In my opinion he is totally motivated by money and in that sense, he has had a successful career.

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Money is certainly a major influence on Venables and if he senses that the FAI want/need him, he'll be a hard man to pay. Still, that shouldn't of itself disqualify him from the job. After all, Jack Charlton sure "knows the value of a shilling" and as I alluded elsewhere, those who know him would tell you that a certain Swedish ex-England manager could teach El Tel a thing or two about screwing money out of his employers! ;)

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Show me where there's a Leeds or a Palace (2nd time) or an Australia on Hodgson's record.

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Leeds was the longest running car crash in English football, as via virtual bankruptcy, they slid under a succession of managers from the CL Semi Finals to the old 3rd Division. This slide both preceded and succeeded TV's time at the club, so all you can say about him there was that he didn't make a dreadful situation any better, before getting out when he could.

I strongly suspect that Venables had absolutely no idea of the scale of the disaster that he was letting himself in for at Elland Road, including e.g. that no sooner than he arrived, he would be told by the banks to conduct a fire-sale of any player who could raise a few bob in the transfer market. Or does anyone really think it was TV's idea of building a decent team to sell the likes of Robbie Keane for £7million ?

As for Australia, would you like to back up your insinuation that TV's time in charge was some sort of disaster? It might not have been a triumph on a par with that of Hiddinck (screwed up somewhat in the Russia job, btw), but nor was it noticeably worse than any other of their managers. Afaik, his departure from the job was as much to do with concern at unusual "coincidences" of players getting their first cap from TV for Oz, then suddenly getting transfers to English clubs, than it was for his coaching ability.

EG, you'd argue it was night when it's clearly day, just for the sake of it I reckon.

Robbie Fowler's a genius because he had an extremely lucrative job and was immensely cash rich during the biggest property bull market on record? I'd be very surprised if any 90s footballer hasn't amassed a fortune on his investments since given financial and real asset inflation over the last 15 years. Most would employ advisors too I'd guess.

My point was that you can barely trust a footballer's instinct on football, bizarre as it may sound. Alan Shearer last night was a case in point. An absolutely stunning career domestically and internationally and all he can propose at half time is to "eh...get in amonst 'em". I'm not sure Shearer's would be the first reference I'd seek yet I always got the impression he's a smart enough guy.

I'd love to know Lineker's earnings at Spurs versus his earnings at Barcelona. Do you know?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'd love to know Lineker's earnings at Spurs versus his earnings at Barcelona. Do you know?

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im sure he made more in japan
and for walkers

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

1. The anecdote I quoted was merely a humourous aside to another poster's contention that all footballers are "notoriously thick";
2. Therefore I was not comparing El Tels credentials for the job with those of Sven in the same way as I was e.g. those of Hodgson;
3. Besides, Sven is not a candidate for the ROI job and never will be, until or unless Delaney offers him more money than he's on at City, in which case he'll be over in Dublin quicker than a rat up a drainpipe.

So never mind the "bluffer", just what the Hell was your point? :confused:

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The insinuation from the anecdote that you quoted was that Fowler, as a sucessful businessman (which I think everyone was aware of, his property portfolio is common knowledge) and someone who knows the workings of a dressing room had spotted Sven as a bluffer. You'd earlier derided my description of Venables as a spoofer due to his limited success so hence the reply. Surely if you wanted to show that Fowler wasn't 'notoriously thick' all you had to do was mention his property dealings, no?

With Jewell out Giles is now backing Venables.

Sun will run Pat Walker as an interested candidate

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Leeds was the longest running car crash in English football, as via virtual bankruptcy, they slid under a succession of managers from the CL Semi Finals to the old 3rd Division. This slide both preceded and succeeded TV's time at the club, so all you can say about him there was that he didn't make a dreadful situation any better, before getting out when he could.

I strongly suspect that Venables had absolutely no idea of the scale of the disaster that he was letting himself in for at Elland Road, including e.g. that no sooner than he arrived, he would be told by the banks to conduct a fire-sale of any player who could raise a few bob in the transfer market. Or does anyone really think it was TV's idea of building a decent team to sell the likes of Robbie Keane for £7million ?

As for Australia, would you like to back up your insinuation that TV's time in charge was some sort of disaster? It might not have been a triumph on a par with that of Hiddinck (screwed up somewhat in the Russia job, btw), but nor was it noticeably worse than any other of their managers. Afaik, his departure from the job was as much to do with concern at unusual "coincidences" of players getting their first cap from TV for Oz, then suddenly getting transfers to English clubs, than it was for his coaching ability.

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As a Leeds fan I concur that the situation wasn't great when Venables took over but he undoubtedly made a bad situation far far worse. What fire sale was this you refer to? When TV took over the only player that was sold was Rio Ferdinand which, given that Woodgate was fit again shouldn't have been a problem and the cash was too much to turn down. he then brought in his mate Nicky Barmby on around £80k per week and sold Robbie Keane to get him off the wage bill to accommodate Barmby. Do you really think that Leeds' creditors would have started looking for their money back had Leeds been top of the league at Christmas (where the same squad had been 12 months previous)? No chance, the reason panic set in was because Venables had been an unmitigated disaster in charge and according to Trevor Birch (one of the few people to emerge from the wreckage of Leeds with any credit) had totally lost the dressing room. He wouldn't play Batty or Dacourt and had his old mate Okon in midfield on another massive wage. He was pure ****e, played players totally out of position and looked a spent force tactically by then. The sales only really kicked in in January when the transfer window opened.

As for his time in Australia, for pretty much every other campaign they had to go into a play off against a South American team (Argentina a couple of times and Uruguay spring to mind) and were unfortunate not to come through. Venables had the fortune to get a play off against Iran and maged to blow it. that's a disaster and noticeably worse then previous managers with lesser reputations in my book. And he left because they got knocked out rather then any other reason, as far as I recall he was half assed with it anyway as he was screwing over Pompey at the same time.

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Originally Posted by soccerc

Sun will run Pat Walker as an interested candidate

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It would even be a step up the ladder to manage Pats after Örebro.
Is this the time when desperate people start to find rationality in strange end of the world is nigh in 10 days time cults unless we do something like give the best football job in the land to a guy who manages mediocrity in the Swedish heartland.

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Originally Posted by soccerc

With Jewell out Giles is now backing Venables.

Sun will run Pat Walker as an interested candidate

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Giles on newstalk earliers said Venables was a candidate that should be looked at thats all.
Said he's a good manager when he's serious about a job but he's often distracted by his outside interests.

the full interview with giles will be up here tomorrow

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Originally Posted by eekers

Giles on newstalk earliers said Venables was a candidate that should be looked at thats all.
Said he's a good manager when he's serious about a job but he's often distracted by his outside interests.

the full interview with giles will be up here tomorrow

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You think I'd rely on newstalk?

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Originally Posted by soccerc

You think I'd rely on newstalk?

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well a few posts back, you relied on a rag!

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Originally Posted by soccerc

Sun will run Pat Walker as an interested candidate

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What wrong with relying on an actual half hour with John Giles on Newstalk that i listened to earlier, over who Giles is backing. ie No one yet.

here's a quote from the examiner considering you dont believe in radio

Giles told Newstalk: “I think he (Venables) would be another good candidate. He’s proven himself in the past. If you look back on his career, he’s had a long career, and like anyone who’s had a long career, he’s had a patchy career. He’s had some good success and he’s had a few jobs which were not so good, but overall he’ll definitely be a candidate for the job.”

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

I don't believe Dunne, Hunt or Harte are thick.

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Hunt said Venables was good because Nicky Shorey, occasional English squad member, said he was good at England. I'd hope that the FAI make their choice based on something more substantial than this.

I do have an open mind. I've athought since the mid 90s that Venables was overrated and I've seen or heard little since that has persuaded me otherwise.

Both Fanning & Hyland have come back to me, Hyland a few times.

Each had a degree of flexibility.

I don't think it's fair to quote them publicly - they were personal messages.

Fair play for responding.

ya, i wont quote my response either as the first was fair enough, but the last one was a backtrack of enormous proportions. So, least to say I have been vindicated :D If anyone wants to see it pm me.

Fair play to them for responding though.

Thank God for Daniel McDonnell - big negative piece on El Tel this morning(online anyway)