Paul McShane

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20/11/2007, 11:54 AM
as_i_say

good post IF86. I'm really hopeful for O'dea. he had a fair amount of games last season but dont know why it hasnt happened this time. Mcshane is the best we have right now to partner dunne but i would welcome andy obrien back for another go. however himself and joey are part of one of the worst defenses in the premier league.
20/11/2007, 12:05 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Games with McShane - O'Shea at centre half:
Czech Republic (H) 1-1
Wales (A) 2-2

Games with McShane - Dunne at centre half:
San Marino (H) 5-0
Wales (H) 1-0
Slovakia (H) 1-0
Slovakia (A) 2-2
Czech Republic (A) 0-1

Hard to read anything from so few games, but it does look that we are less likely to concede with Dunne - McShane than O'Shea - McShane

What about Dunne - O'Shea? All I can think of is the Denmark game.
20/11/2007, 12:11 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

What about Dunne - O'Shea? All I can think of is the Denmark game.

I'd say they are few and far between alright, I only checked McShane's history on soccerscene.ie because he's played relatively few games compared to Dunne or O'Shea, don't really have the time to go through both those players' history
20/11/2007, 12:24 PM
eirebhoy

While McShane looks really comfortable beside Dunne, I also think Dunne looks most comfortable beside McShane.
20/11/2007, 12:39 PM
Stuttgart88

Dunne alongside O'Shea or a fit Andy O'Brien for me. If McShane was the subject of a Dutch beer comercial you'd have a bloke shouting "Schtop! What's the rush?"

Funny thing is, Dunne & O'Brien did very well together under Kerr and did well enough in Stuttgart (the half-mistake O'Brien made was extremely harshly punished - iffy free kick, deflected goal) and Cyprus was a nightmare for many parties.

I actually wrote here after the game in Germany that at least our CB partnership looks good, as did the whole back 5 that day I thought. If O'Brien starts regularly for Bolton I think he's shades it for me. If he's injured and McShane has to play then fine, he's handy back-up. PO'S has called it correctly as far as I'm concerned, and Brian Kerr wrote the same at the weekend.
20/11/2007, 12:44 PM
Ireland4ever

I think whats most important is that Dunne stays injury free, without him we are foocked!
20/11/2007, 2:13 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Funny thing is, Dunne & O'Brien did very well together under Kerr and did well enough in Stuttgart (the half-mistake O'Brien made was extremely harshly punished - iffy free kick, deflected goal) and Cyprus was a nightmare for many parties.

Don't remember Dunne and O'Brien playing very often under Kerr, it was Cunningham and O'Brien more often than not. Dunne was a squad member, but never a regular starter for Kerr. He spent about 6 years in the senior squad under Kerr and McCarthy before becoming a regular starter, and eventual "key player".
I think McShane is suffering by comparison. Irish centre halves playing regularly at the top level are thin on the ground at the moment, so he's been thrust right into the senior picture, instead of being brought through gradually (like Dunne. and O'Brien before him were) and because he's not measuring up to what Dunne is doing now, instead of comparing him to what Dunne was doing at the same age, suffering massive amounts of criticism.
For one, I still have faith that he will be a top player in future.
20/11/2007, 2:17 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

it was Cunningham and O'Brien more often than not.

I think you're right actually. Either way, O'Brien always did well enough.

How many different CB pairings did we field this campaign? It'd be nice we we arrive at one good pairing and they both stayed fit. McShane is only a third of the way through his first season in the so called top flight. It's a big ask to expect him to be up to international standard just yet.
20/11/2007, 3:06 PM
paul_oshea

id agree with those two last points.

Its just people on here havent a clue, they get all excited and thing legends etc.

Hunt will be a slightly better kilbane in the long run. Mark my words. He is exactly like kilbane, and we all loved kilbane as a player initially, loved might be the wrong word, admired and thought he was great.
20/11/2007, 3:10 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

id agree with those two last points.

Its just people on here havent a clue, they get all excited and thing legends etc.

Hunt will be a slightly better kilbane in the long run. Mark my words. He is exactly like kilbane, and we all loved kilbane as a player initially, loved might be the wrong word, admired and thought he was great.

I wish I could remember the last time Kilbane made an assist of the quality of Hunt's on Saturday.
20/11/2007, 3:13 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

I wish I could remember the last time Kilbane made an assist of the quality of Hunt's on Saturday.

exactly. but he did, or at least planted it on someones head.
20/11/2007, 3:45 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

How many different CB pairings did we field this campaign?

Germany (A) Dunne - Andy O'Brien
Cyprus (A) Dunne - Andy O'Brien
Czech (H) O'Shea - McShane
San Marino (H) Dunne - McShane
San Marino (A) Dunne - O'Shea
Wales (H) Dunne - McShane
Slovakia (H) Dunne - McShane
Slovakia (A) Dunne - McShane
Czech (A) Dunne - McShane
Germany (H) McShane - Joey O'Brien
Cyprus (H) O'Shea - McShane
Wales (A) O'Shea - McShane

So 5 different combinations, but we didn't settle on a settled starting pair until half way through the campaign

Code:

Combination Times W D L 1. Dunne - McShane 5 3 1 1 2. O'Shea - McShane 3 0 3 0 3. Dunne - A O'Brien 2 0 0 2 4. Dunne - O'Shea 1 1 0 0 5. McShane - J O'Brien 1 0 1 0
20/11/2007, 5:05 PM
the doc

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

I rate McShane very highly, but even if you think he's an average centre-half by EPL standards (which I think is as low as you could rate him), he's still one of our best options at that position.

Who would you rather have in there?
-Andy O'Brien who I think is the epitome of average central defenders (should definitely be in the squad though)
-Joey O'Brien: why the **** was he playing centre-half for us against Germany?
-Darren O'Dea: a good prospect but hasn't broken into the Celtic first team.
-John O'Shea: has the physical attributes for the position but not the brain/guts. Also not playing there for his club.
-Alex Bruce: Championship level centre-half, still young and could improve. Possible for the future but not yet.
-Paddy McCarthy: Championship level centre-half, was captain of his old club. Tons of ability and hard as nails, but gives away a lot of fouls and gets a lot of cards. Hopefully will smarten up with time.

When you look at that group of centre-halfs, McShane for me is at least the best of a bad bunch. O'Dea, McCarthy, and Bruce could still make the grade later on, but as far as current contenders McShane is pretty clear first choice for me alongside Dunne.

What about Sean St Ledger at Preston? tipped for a move to the Premiership soon

Good on the ball, good in the air, reads the game well, has pace and good positional awareness, can play at RB,CB,Sweeper,LB and the holding role in midfield.

Can't undertstand why he's not in the frame,as I know Kerr and Given were pushing for him to play for the U21's when he was at Peterborough and did feature in some of the senior squads under Stan after his good performances at Preston.

Was earmarked to start the last B game and in the USA only for injury to rule him out and was also close to a start for the senior team in Cyprus.
20/11/2007, 5:23 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

id agree with those two last points.

Its just people on here havent a clue, they get all excited and thing legends etc.

Hunt will be a slightly better kilbane in the long run. Mark my words. He is exactly like kilbane, and we all loved kilbane as a player initially, loved might be the wrong word, admired and thought he was great.

The only thing I've changed my mind on is that McShane is one of the few young players out there that doesn't need an organiser to get the best out of him. I was definitely wrong on that one. I'm sure he's learning loads with every game though and I still think he'll go on to be an excellent player.

I'm making excuses here but we really can't judge him too much playing beside O'Shea. Andy O'Brien was superb in pretty much every game beside Cunningham. Against Holland he partnered O'Shea and they were completely lost. I believe if McShane was partnering a top class organiser throughout this campaign he'd be getting rave reviews.
20/11/2007, 9:58 PM
irishfan86

Quote:

Originally Posted by the doc

What about Sean St Ledger at Preston? tipped for a move to the Premiership soon.

It wasn't a deliberate exclusion, he just slipped my mind.
20/11/2007, 10:14 PM
Qwerty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Dunne alongside O'Shea or a fit Andy O'Brien for me. If McShane was the subject of a Dutch beer comercial you'd have a bloke shouting "Schtop! What's the rush?"

Funny thing is, Dunne & O'Brien did very well together under Kerr and did well enough in Stuttgart (the half-mistake O'Brien made was extremely harshly punished - iffy free kick, deflected goal) and Cyprus was a nightmare for many parties.

I actually wrote here after the game in Germany that at least our CB partnership looks good, as did the whole back 5 that day I thought. If O'Brien starts regularly for Bolton I think he's shades it for me. If he's injured and McShane has to play then fine, he's handy back-up. PO'S has called it correctly as far as I'm concerned, and Brian Kerr wrote the same at the weekend.

I'm with you, and further in O'Brien's defense he wasn't close to first team football at Portsmouth when he played those games for Ireland. It's very tough to come from reserve football in a situation where you know the manager isn't interested in playing you to come in and play well in crucial international games.
21/11/2007, 8:40 AM
rambler14

He needs to learn some rules of defending:
1. STAY ON YOUR FEET
2. STAY GOAL SIDE
3. DON'T GRAB ONTO PEOPLE NEAR THE BOX
4. IF THERE RUNNING AWAY FROM THE GOAL.... LEAVE THEM RUN AWAY FROM THE GOAL
5. DON'T FOUL EVERY TIME YOU GO FOR THE BALL
21/11/2007, 10:34 AM
paul_oshea

Quote:

I'm making excuses here but we really can't judge him too much playing beside O'Shea. Andy O'Brien was superb in pretty much every game beside Cunningham. Against Holland he partnered O'Shea and they were completely lost. I believe if McShane was partnering a top class organiser throughout this campaign he'd be getting rave reviews.

Ya you could well be right on this, id agree. But think of Phil Babb here, he was fine beside McGrath cos McGrath made him look fine.
24/11/2007, 3:44 PM
Condex

Looks like McShane is taking up where he left off in Cardiff
We'll have to look elsewhere for a defensive partner for Dunne.. :(

61 mins: Goal flash Everton 4 Sunderland 1 Everton are gifted a goal. McShane misses a long punt forward by Yobo and slips as he tries to recover. It allows Cahill to go clean through and slot a shot past Gordon. It is a long way back for Sunderland now.

57 mins: Yakubu turns McShane and shoots wide from 22 yards.
24/11/2007, 3:45 PM
Condex

It get worse..

78 mins: Goal flash Everton 6 Sunderland 1 Oh dear. Substitute Johnson races on to Neville's hopeful ball forward, outpaces McShane and slots a shot past Gordon.

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