Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

Slightly off topic here, What annoys me about Sunderland is hearing their results on the radio and not hearing the other Championship scores. Or when Setanta show a EPL game @ 3.00, Sunderland's score pops up in the corner and no other Championship score. I find it embarrassing, Everyone in Ireland is all of a sudden a Sunderland supporter, joke. Its like every Irish person is suppose to support Celtic, well, I do not.

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The reason their result/updates is only shown is becasuse half the country loves Roy Keane and the other half hates him... thus it makes sense for Setanta to show Sunderland results updates etc because they know everyone in the country has an interest.. if he had chosen to bring his brilliance to another club then that clubs results would be featured... love him or hate the man still occupies a huge fascination for almost every follower of soccer in this country.

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

I often go to St. Annes park to watch amateur soccer and was involved for a few years as a secretary so I dont feel that I owe local soccer all that much to be honest. If Dundalk were playing in a big game then I have on occasion gone to watch them but I have limited resources and I want to see Sunderland at least once a season. I see where you are coming from but rather than people castigating the stay aways who may also be LOI fana you should focus your attention on the LOI clubs and suggest to them ways to allow people to come for example free for 1st visit

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In fairness you're telling us nothing we havent heard a hundred times, the FAI are doing their best to address the very things you have pointed out. For instance, my own club at cork city:

- Has fantastic facilities, and will hopefully by the end of the year be the first ever all-seated, all-covered soccer ground in ireland.
- Has a good footballing team. We may have lost players of the calibre of shane long, kevin doyle, geoge o'callaghan, danny murpphy and alan bennett to premier division/championship teams in britain, (we had players of that calibre, we still do, and people will still claim we're "****") but we still have good players, we still play attractive football, and soon enough we'll have 2 irish internationals in the centre of our midfield.
- Has incentives to start going. The loyalty card that every club now has is perfect. You have a set goal of a number of games you could go to - i think its 10. Go to 10 games in the whole season, and you can get thousands of euros as a reward.
- Puts in "face time" with the media/public. Not a day goes by without damien richardson or one of the players being pictured at some public interest area. Dan Murray kisses more babies than a politician.
- We attract big crowds - on the right occasion. Thats the clincher. People have no problem coming to the cross for a game of football. the majority of people in cork these days do wish to see city do well. They just won't bother their arses going even every few weeks to see a game. Its much, much easier just to watch the premiership and swap andy gray's soundbites with your friends.

No offence but "trying to see your team once a year" doesn't really make you a supporter, in the same way someone you see very rarely is more likely to be an acquaintance rather than a friend.

Football is made to be watched live.

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

I often go to St. Annes park to watch amateur soccer and was involved for a few years as a secretary so I dont feel that I owe local soccer all that much to be honest. If Dundalk were playing in a big game then I have on occasion gone to watch them but I have limited resources and I want to see Sunderland at least once a season. I see where you are coming from but rather than people castigating the stay aways who may also be LOI fana you should focus your attention on the LOI clubs and suggest to them ways to allow people to come for example free for 1st visit

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Your argument ends for me there I'm afraid. You can buy a season ticket for any LoI club for about 200/300 Euro. It's going to cost you more than that to go to Sunderland this weekend. Why should Irish clubs that work hard to stay in existence give you free entry to a game. Irish clubs give youngsters the opportunity to learn the game without having to go abroad at a ridiculously early age (i.e. Stephen Ward). If more Irish people attended games then the Irish clubs could compete financially with English clubs in the Championship and offer players like Stephen Ward the opportunity to stay in Ireland longer and stake a claim for inclusion in the International side but as long as Irish football lovers pour their money into clubs from a foreign country while ignoring their local sides then it is always going to be a difficult task for Irish clubs. You strike me as a decent person but to expect excellent facilities and free entry at a LoI ground smacks of arrogance. Did Sunderland give you free entry when you first went to see them?

Im from Tipperary and have played local Junior soccer since I was 12 years old. We have no LOI and no team that I could really identify with.
I have a soft-spot for Derry City and have gone to watch them on a good few occassions but I know because Im not from Derry I can never real fan because it isnt in my blood/family.
However Im a big Ireland fan and go to all the home games.
However I think there is a formula to look at.


More People go to LOI= More Money for LOI Clubs= Better Grounds/Facilities= More People go to LOI= Better Grounds/Players= More Money for LOI Clubs= Better Youth Development/ Players= Better Options for young irish players= More and better players for the Irish National Team


Its a circle that will end up with better players for the National Team and also give an option to young irish lads to stay at home and pursue a career in football here which socially is also very important.
It will provide local heros for young people growing up and will entice more young people to play the game/ stay out of trouble.
It just needs enough people to go now to tip the balance and get this cycle going.
If Irish clubs are successful then Irish Coaches control the destiny of other Irish players rather than been lumped into massive youth systems in the UK.

lads i think everyone is bein very harsh on the original poster. hes a sunderland fan so what?????? just cause he doesnt follow a loi club is he a lesser person than us.... answer is no!!!!! simple like

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

If Dundalk were playing in a big game then I have on occasion gone to watch them but I have limited resources and I want to see Sunderland at least once a season.

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I remember a very similar thread on the old EL forum about nine or ten years ago. The main difference being that your position was being advocated by none other than myself. My arguement was that I grew up in Navan so I "didn't have a local team" and had always "supported" Everton. Thing was the hostility of some of the diehards on that forum at the time only served galvanise that "support". It was at a time when for the first time I had the money to go to a few Everton games a season. I went and I loved the "being there" feeling. I soon realised I couldn't afford to "feed my habit" and get my fix by relying on trips accross the water so started going to EL games. Bohs featured more often than anyone else as I had a college friend who's a Bohs fan (there were some other factors which meant I already had was leaning in the direction of Bohs which I have mentioned here before). Pretty soon I got hooked by the atmosphere, the real live being there feeling. I began to consider myself a Bohs fan and by the end of my first season supporting Bohs they were more important to me than Everton. I also realised that I could get a whole season of Bohs for the price of two trips to Goodison. Nowadays I'm a member of the club. Its an obsession. I still follow Everton and go to the odd game but its a different kind of following. Bohs is part of me now and I am part of Bohs. What happens to Bohs directly reflects on my moods and my life. Everton is an interest, a hobby. Bohs is my religion.

There’s been a lot posted on here and it seems that nobody is budging on there stand point. And to be honest, from what has ben said I wouldn’t budge whether I was Irishboy or any of the eL supporters considering the posts.

Here’s my tuppence worth though. I like you Irishboy, saw my first match in England in the early 80’s and funnily enough it involved Sunderland although I was going to see Manchester United. I would imagine I’m also about the same age as you (early – mid 30’s?).

I spent years arguing your arguments right up until about 7-8 years ago. I didn’t (and still don’t) live ‘near’ to an eL club but was taken on occasion to Bohs matches as my Dad’s from Cabra. I would have always looked out for their results. I was even ‘emotional’ when United won the Champions League in ’99. I travelled as much as I could to see them play at Old Trafford and even got an away leg of a Champions League match against Bayern into the bargain. But it is expensive to follow ‘your club’ in this fashion.

So bearing all of this in mind I don’t think you and I are at all dissimilar.

Thing is this, you probably need a reason to go to watch eL football. For me there were two reasons. Firstly I wanted to give up smoking so needed something other than going to the pub on a Friday night to do and also I was beginning to question myself as a football fan. Why, if I purport to being such a great football fan (as everyone I knew would be of the opinion), was I not going to watch live football at any chance I could get? There was no answer to this except that I wasn’t as great a football fan as I thought I was or as others thought I was.

Football is a participation sport. Whether you play it or support it. I played for years but rarely went to support. When I stopped playing, I only looked at it on the TV so therefore I was not participating.

Deciding to go to watch eL on your own (which is basically what I did) requires a leap of faith and an open mind. 7/8 years later I could not bear the thought of missing Bohs playing. I enjoy meeting with all of the friends I’ve made down the years at Dalymount whether home or away. The whole social aspect of my support for Bohs is as much a part of it as is going to watch the football.

As I’ve said, you need some sort of justification to go and watch and eL game. If you can’t find that then pity for you. If you can I guarantee you, if you go and give it a chance, it will give you back more than you can imagine. And you can still hold onto your Sunderland.

BTW, I’m going to Milan on Wednesday to see United reach the final of the Champions League! :)

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

In fairness you're telling us nothing we havent heard a hundred times, the FAI are doing their best to address the very things you have pointed out. For instance, my own club at cork city:

- Has fantastic facilities, and will hopefully by the end of the year be the first ever all-seated, all-covered soccer ground in ireland.
- Has a good footballing team. We may have lost players of the calibre of shane long, kevin doyle, geoge o'callaghan, danny murpphy and alan bennett to premier division/championship teams in britain, (we had players of that calibre, we still do, and people will still claim we're "****") but we still have good players, we still play attractive football, and soon enough we'll have 2 irish internationals in the centre of our midfield.
- Has incentives to start going. The loyalty card that every club now has is perfect. You have a set goal of a number of games you could go to - i think its 10. Go to 10 games in the whole season, and you can get thousands of euros as a reward.
- Puts in "face time" with the media/public. Not a day goes by without damien richardson or one of the players being pictured at some public interest area. Dan Murray kisses more babies than a politician.
- We attract big crowds - on the right occasion. Thats the clincher. People have no problem coming to the cross for a game of football. the majority of people in cork these days do wish to see city do well. They just won't bother their arses going even every few weeks to see a game. Its much, much easier just to watch the premiership and swap andy gray's soundbites with your friends.

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Cork fans. Any chance to brag and they grab it like a million quid.

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Originally Posted by Philly

Cork fans. Any chance to brag and they grab it like a million quid.

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I'm giving my experience as an eircom league fan. predominantly, that is at turners cross. if you want to be "parochial" enough to put someone down for recounting how their local EL "product" has improved vastly over the last few years, so be it, but you'd wonder what exactly your ambitions are.

Ouch. Somebody's in a mood today! Joke, boy, joke.....

If we are going to be all serious, then I agree, Cork are a club a lot of teams should strive to emulate. Good facilities, and good community ties, and a good team with a professional set-up.

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Originally Posted by Philly

Cork fans. Any chance to brag and they grab it like a million quid.

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Don't see a problem with that.

Us Derry fans did our fair share of it last year as we had something to be proud of.

We should all be bragging more, or marketing as they like to call it in fancy circles........

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

I think that your arguments are lost on my generation of supporter but if you feel that you can influence the next generation I would feel that has some merit but the clubs need to go to the schools and the community in a much bigger way and in a much wider radius, offer free tickets, invite inward investment for a share of the club, run it with real business professionals, find a way to offer good contracts to players who want to go to England (a bit like Leinster in the Rugby). My generation is lost. The bug bit for me when I watched a game in a big stadium(anfield) watching very passionate supporters(sunderland) with great facilities.
The next generation are there for the taking but alot has to change. As for being a consumer then if it means paying for my ticket, my flight, my B and B then I am a consumer but I regard myself as a supporter as well and if you are a better supporter than me then fair play to you

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Gee thanks for telling us how to market the game here. How condescending of you. At Rovers we have volunteers working non stop to run the club and attract fans.

You're from Stillorgan and you "support" sunderland. How pathetic. When you go abroad and someone asks where you're from and who you support do you not get embarrassed? If you're not from sunderland you cannot be a supporter.

You have some nerve complaining about the league here without seeing the ridiculous hypocrisy of spending hundreds on a daytrip to see a foreign club.

http://www.safc.com/news/?page_id=11819

KOH

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Originally Posted by CharlesThompson

There’s been a lot posted on here and it seems that nobody is budging on there stand point. And to be honest, from what has ben said I wouldn’t budge whether I was Irishboy or any of the eL supporters considering the posts.

Here’s my tuppence worth though. I like you Irishboy, saw my first match in England in the early 80’s and funnily enough it involved Sunderland although I was going to see Manchester United. I would imagine I’m also about the same age as you (early – mid 30’s?).

I spent years arguing your arguments right up until about 7-8 years ago. I didn’t (and still don’t) live ‘near’ to an eL club but was taken on occasion to Bohs matches as my Dad’s from Cabra. I would have always looked out for their results and I was even ‘emotional’ when they won the Champions League in ’99. I travelled as much as I could to see them play at Old Trafford and even got an away leg of a Champions League match against Bayern into the bargain. But it is expensive to follow ‘your club’ in this fashion.

So bearing all of this in mind I don’t think you and I are at all dissimilar.

Thing is this, you probably need a reason to go to watch eL football. For me there were two reasons. Firstly I wanted to give up smoking so needed something other than going to the pub on a Friday night to do and also I was beginning to question myself as a football fan. Why, if I purport to being such a great football fan (as everyone I knew would be of the opinion), was I not going to watch live football at any chance I could get? There was no answer to this except that I wasn’t as great a football fan as I thought I was or as others thought I was.

Football is a participation sport. Whether you play it or support it. I played for years but rarely went to support. When I stopped playing, I only looked at it on the TV so therefore I was not participating.

Deciding to go to watch eL on your own (which is basically what I did) requires a leap of faith and an open mind. 7/8 years later I could not bear the thought of missing Bohs playing. I enjoy meeting with all of the friends I’ve made down the years at Dalymount whether home or away. The whole social aspect of my support for Bohs is as much a part of it as is going to watch the football.

As I’ve said, you need some sort of justification to go and watch and eL game. If you can’t find that then pity for you. If you can I guarantee you, if you go and give it a chance, it will give you back more than you can imagine. And you can still hold onto your Sunderland.

BTW, I’m going to Milan on Wednesday to see United reach the final of the Champions League! :)

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Now that is the sort of post that might get irishboy interested in the Eircom League - good lad Charles - and also Bohs Partisan who made similar points above. Reasoned points as to why the league holds a great appeal and not the "I'm a better fan than you and you are pathetic" rants most people have chosen to spew.

Yuck - just praised two Bohs fans - I feel so dirty!

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Originally Posted by CharlesThompson

There’s been a lot posted on here and it seems that nobody is budging on there stand point. And to be honest, from what has ben said I wouldn’t budge whether I was Irishboy or any of the eL supporters considering the posts.

Here’s my tuppence worth though. I like you Irishboy, saw my first match in England in the early 80’s and funnily enough it involved Sunderland although I was going to see Manchester United. I would imagine I’m also about the same age as you (early – mid 30’s?).

I spent years arguing your arguments right up until about 7-8 years ago. I didn’t (and still don’t) live ‘near’ to an eL club but was taken on occasion to Bohs matches as my Dad’s from Cabra. I would have always looked out for their results. I was even ‘emotional’ when United won the Champions League in ’99. I travelled as much as I could to see them play at Old Trafford and even got an away leg of a Champions League match against Bayern into the bargain. But it is expensive to follow ‘your club’ in this fashion.

So bearing all of this in mind I don’t think you and I are at all dissimilar.

Thing is this, you probably need a reason to go to watch eL football. For me there were two reasons. Firstly I wanted to give up smoking so needed something other than going to the pub on a Friday night to do and also I was beginning to question myself as a football fan. Why, if I purport to being such a great football fan (as everyone I knew would be of the opinion), was I not going to watch live football at any chance I could get? There was no answer to this except that I wasn’t as great a football fan as I thought I was or as others thought I was.

Football is a participation sport. Whether you play it or support it. I played for years but rarely went to support. When I stopped playing, I only looked at it on the TV so therefore I was not participating.

Deciding to go to watch eL on your own (which is basically what I did) requires a leap of faith and an open mind. 7/8 years later I could not bear the thought of missing Bohs playing. I enjoy meeting with all of the friends I’ve made down the years at Dalymount whether home or away. The whole social aspect of my support for Bohs is as much a part of it as is going to watch the football.

As I’ve said, you need some sort of justification to go and watch and eL game. If you can’t find that then pity for you. If you can I guarantee you, if you go and give it a chance, it will give you back more than you can imagine. And you can still hold onto your Sunderland.

BTW, I’m going to Milan on Wednesday to see United reach the final of the Champions League! :)

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Great post.
Still, I hope MakeBelieveBohs/Milan stuff 'em.

Sounds as if he hardly gave it a chance. Im an ex-barstooler, but after giving the ELoI a chance I find its well worth the few bob entry fee. Having gone to see the Dubs and gone to the internationals down the years ive always loved the buzz of matchday and with the ELoI u get it every other wkend.

How can he say the facilities are dirt, when his beloved just played Colchester last weekend in Layer Road which has a capacity of a whopping 6,340.

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Then I moved to a northside club for 1 year as a player. As for the Republic I last saw them in a friendly vs China at Landsdowne.

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Irishboy, I was agreeing with an awful lot of what you were saying, particularly with regards to having no affiliation to an Irish club growing up, however after this I don't see any logic to your argument other than being a consumer, brainwashed by marketing and a false sense of belonging. I mean what makes you anyway a Sunderland NATIVE? Its like people in ireland who support liverpool saying how they hate "mancs", I mean they dont even have a clue why, other than watching tele or having gone to the odd match and heard that they aren' t supposed to like united fans. plain stupidity.

I'm going to step into this debate about choosing a football club. And yes I say choosing one yourself because it doesn't just choose you.

That isn't the same as saying you should pick any team for any random reason, or that you should just support the biggest team with the best players.

But there are plenty of reasons for choosing a football club. It is not just down to where you live. Nothing can be as cut and blown dry as that.

Even among the Irish league I bet there are plenty of fans who watch say Bohemians but don't watch say Aer Lingus F.C. even though the latter's ground is closer (my irish geography isn't great, so excuse me if those two clubs are miles apart) :)

Take me for example. My local club would be Port Talbot, though I was actually brought up in Neath. However, my dad was a Swansea fan and his dad before him. I was brought up wearing Swansea shirts and watching John Toshack's side rise through the divisions. I have a history watching them and have been through the bad times such as nearly dropping out of the league a few years back and the Tony Petty shambles, and the recent good times with the new stadium and international football being brought here.

Does the fact that I'm from Port Talbot make me any less of a fan than the ones who actually come from the city if Swansea but only come out to watch us when we get a good cup draw or are doing well in the league? :rolleyes: Scrap that, does it make me less of a fan than the fans who come from Swansea full stop? I don't see how it does. If so what about those Bohemians fans who actually live closer to the ground of a lower league Irish side? And I bet there are a good few of those to be honest.

With regards the Irish fan from Sunderland who started this thread, for me he's got no less merit because he supports an English club. Assuming he's got actual reasons for supporting them and not because they were doing well at the time, which I think we probably agree on since Sunderland have never really been that big a club relatively speaking, why criticise him? he has his own reasons. It's not like he's against the Irish league, but just chooses to support a team outside of Ireland, maybe because of family history or some other ties there.

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With regards the Irish fan from Sunderland who started this thread, for me he's got no less merit because he supports an English club. Assuming he's got actual reasons for supporting them and not because they were doing well at the time, which I think we probably agree on since Sunderland have never really been that big a club relatively speaking, why criticise him? he has his own reasons. It's not like he's against the Irish league, but just chooses to support a team outside of Ireland, maybe because of family history or some other ties there.

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Cymro, thats the most honest, fair and reasoned point you will ever seen in the EL forum, but when that same fan said he went to landsdowne to watch china ( unless of course he has just been unable to get tickets, which I very much doubt ) v Ireland and thats the only/last time he was there makes his argument completely non-sensical - to me at least :)

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

I want to see Sunderland at least once a season. I see where you are coming

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Once a season?
Jesus fair play to ya