Darron Gibson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Collyontour

It seems pretty clear to me. If he has a right to an Irish pasport (i.e. Irish citizenship), he has a right to play. If it's against FIFA's rules, they'll have to change them to suit the law.

---

Yes but when Qatar handed out passports to some talented Brazilians that's what started the mess. A passport and citizenship are no longer enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Liam,
I wouldn't argue with any of that - I've long since got over bothering about the North/NI, Derry/L'derry, England/the Mainland etc. But that is in the course of normal conversation.
In my original post, I was referring to the wilful refusal of people to use "NI" and "ROI" in the footballing context, such as on this Board, that's all.
Remember, there is no football team called "Ireland", unless you count the version played by that strange lot who have funny-shaped balls! ;)

---

Lighten up ffs. Its more than likely shorthand. Rather than type Republic of Ireland national team, people type Ireland. As its an almost exclusively Republic of Ireland board, they know what it means. its used the same way Bohs mean Bohemian FC, Rovers mean Shamrock Rovers (unless you're from Sligo) etc etc

The other reason is that its a national side and the nation's name is Ireland. All the FIFA rules in the world won't change that

As someone who consistently refer to the "Irish" side in far worse terms you can get down off your high horse

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by charliesboots

This might sound drastic but if FIFA or UEFA were to rule that a player born in one of the six counties was not entitled to play for Ireland the government should put pressure on the FAI to temporarily withdraw from all international competition and threaten to resign from FIFA.

Everybody recognises the right of anybody born in the north to be an Irish citizen and consider themselves part of the Irish nation, even unionists. If anybody where to undermine this right it would be absolutely disgraceful.

---

I hope you are not serious. Do you really think we'd be missed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gspain

I hope you are not serious. Do you really think we'd be missed?

---

As a threat. What other action would you propose. I guarantee you'd win it in court but you know how FIFA are about that. I'd say **** you - ban me and have one of my reliefs as reinstatement to FIFA and their competition.

If they ruled against him Gibson could bring a case himself, if he didn't win it in the national courts he would defo win it in the ECHR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Liam,
I wouldn't argue with any of that - I've long since got over bothering about the North/NI, Derry/L'derry, England/the Mainland etc. But that is in the course of normal conversation.
In my original post, I was referring to the wilful refusal of people to use "NI" and "ROI" in the footballing context, such as on this Board, that's all.
Remember, there is no football team called "Ireland", unless you count the version played by that strange lot who have funny-shaped balls! ;)

---

Wilful refusal? Are you saying we should have mutual respect for our different viewpoints regarding our nationality - except to when it comes to football?


-Liam

The bizarre thing here is that most of us think he should be entitled to play, not many of us are 100% convinced he is entitiled and yet he may play in a match where he is not needed without the FAI sorting it out.

FIFA should be formally asked if he is eligible. If they say yes we're covered (as Bohs fans will tell you this should amount to more than a chat with someone with a FIFA badge at the side of the pitch). If they say no we should appeal, unleash Dermot Ahern! etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by charliesboots

As a threat. What other action would you propose. I guarantee you'd win it in court but you know how FIFA are about that. I'd say **** you - ban me and have one of my reliefs as reinstatement to FIFA and their competition.

If they ruled against him Gibson could bring a case himself, if he didn't win it in the national courts he would defo win it in the ECHR

---

I think it is a huge issue for FIFA either way and has serious implications.

I believe we should fight the case. If we lose I think it is up to the player themselves to bring a case possibly with FAI support. There is no way we should even threaten to withdraw from International football. It's a bit like Wayside Celtic or Avondale threatening to pull out of the FAI Cup.

If Northern Ireland lose they could be faced with developing players for us. there are huge implications both ways here and it is a massive decision for FIFA. there are the obvious political implications both ways too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gspain

I think it is a huge issue for FIFA either way and has serious implications.

I believe we should fight the case. If we lose I think it is up to the player themselves to bring a case possibly with FAI support. There is no way we should even threaten to withdraw from International football. It's a bit like Wayside Celtic or Avondale threatening to pull out of the FAI Cup.

If Northern Ireland lose they could be faced with developing players for us. there are huge implications both ways here and it is a massive decision for FIFA. there are the obvious political implications both ways too.

---

I agree it's an important decision. Leaving aside our knowledge of the particular situation you'd be surprised if FIFA had a rule allowing Player A to play for a Federation that he was not born in (nor were any of his family). You would need to put in some rule allowing a player to declare for an associated federation and not sure how that would be phrased.

Pity Mark McKeever never progressed, this could have been sorted awhile ago.
http://www.ex-canaries.co.uk/players/mckeever.htm

All this discussion about a player who may never make the grade anyway. He certainly hasnt done anything to get into the Ireland squad so i can only conclude that its a political decision to get him tied to us. This could be a trivia question in a few years time - "name the Derry City reserve team player who got 10 minutes action in euro qualifier..."

They have rules but they are open to interpretation.

http://www.fifa.com/documents/static...09_2005_EN.pdf

http://www.fifa.com/documents/static...ransfer_EN.pdf

This has only been an issue since 2004 when these rules were introduced.

I believe it all hinges on definitions of nationality.

1) Does Darron Gibson have 2 nationalities or just 1?

2) Do FIFA just recognize British (UK nationality) and Irish (RoI) nationality?

If FIFA say he has 2 nationalities then he can't play for us as the criteria are very clear eg no time living in RoI and no parent or grandparent.

If FIFA accept that he is just Irish then they are saying a player born within the jurisdiction of a football association does not have the nationality of that association.

It is complex. it is political and it could get very ugly and very nasty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by charliesboots

My post was referring to where people were born.

Ireland (or Éire when using the Irish language) is the name of the state, not the Republic of Ireland. The Republic of Ireland as a place to be born simply doesn't exist and I can refer you to numerous Supreme Court judgments that endorse this if you please.

When referring to the football team, I'll gladly use Northern Ireland. When referring to our football team I prefer the term Ireland for the simple reason that players born on the island of Ireland outside of what is generally known as the Republic of Ireland (26 counties) are still entitled to play for that team. I may have to change this practice should the IFA's challenge succeed.

---

Wouldn't argue with your 1st Para, but re your second, you're quite simply wrong. The official name of the FAI team is "Republic of Ireland", as determined by FIFA over 50 years ago*.
Consequently, the FAI is mandated to use ROI on tickets, programmes, official documents etc - and must also do so on the new Scoreboard when Lansdowne is rebuilt. (Until now, they've got away with "borrowing" Rugby's Scorebaord, with its use of "Ireland")
If you don't believe me, consult www.fifa.com


* - If anyone is entitled to use the name "Ireland" for football, it should be the IFA, since we have had it ever since we staged the worlds first competitive international football match in Belfast. In fact, we were told to use "Northern Ireland" (for World Cup and EC matches) at the same time as the FAI were instructed to use ROI. We were allowed to carry on being "Ireland" for British Championship matches, until we stopped in the 1970's (?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dodge

Lighten up ffs. Its more than likely shorthand. Rather than type Republic of Ireland national team, people type Ireland. As its an almost exclusively Republic of Ireland board, they know what it means. its used the same way Bohs mean Bohemian FC, Rovers mean Shamrock Rovers (unless you're from Sligo) etc etc

The other reason is that its a national side and the nation's name is Ireland. All the FIFA rules in the world won't change that

As someone who consistently refer to the "Irish" side in far worse terms you can get down off your high horse

---

Actually, I was referring to people typing "the North", or even "Six Counties", when "NI" is by far the easiest. Ditto, people typing "Ireland" when "ROI" is easier.

P.S. When it comes to football, FIFA and its rules can change pretty much whatever it likes. That's how it works and if any individual Association doesn't like it, they know what to do. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liaml

Wilful refusal? Are you saying we should have mutual respect for our different viewpoints regarding our nationality - except to when it comes to football?


-Liam

---

Actually, Liam, it's all about respect. When it comes to football, we (i.e. the IFA team) are not "the North", we're Northern Ireland (or NI, when typing). Why not respect that?
Similarly, the FAI team is properly termed "Republic of Ireland" (ROI). I respect that.
In fact, if anyone is entitled to use "Ireland" for its football team, it could only be the IFA, but we respect FIFA's ruling in that regard and desist.

:cool:

Quote:

---

British (UK nationality)

---

gspain I am sure you are aware, but Great Britain and the United Kingdom are two different entities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Actually, Liam, it's all about respect. When it comes to football, we (i.e. the IFA team) are not "the North", we're Northern Ireland (or NI, when typing). Why not respect that?
Similarly, the FAI team is properly termed "Republic of Ireland" (ROI). I respect that.
In fact, if anyone is entitled to use "Ireland" for its football team, it could only be the IFA, but we respect FIFA's ruling in that regard and desist.

:cool:

---

out of interest, do people from the north call their team ireland? i call my team ireland, so when referring to the team in a forum is it ok to say ireland. i think so. this debate serves to highlight the identity problem of people from NI.

you've spent so much time tapping the keys about whether we should be ROI and you NI that at this stage we're not much time has been saved at all. but i suspect your point is not to help us type quicker, though i would appreciate any tips on this matter so i can improve my work ethic and live the capitalist dream..

whatever about the historical foundations of the IFA i think nowadays the FAI is more entitled to the ireland tag given the north prefix to the jurisdiction covered by the IFA, and in turn is ruled by the United Kingdom of Great Britain. while the FAI is within the republic of ireland, if it was the republic of southern ireland i would think differently, what do you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

gspain I am sure you are aware, but Great Britain and the United Kingdom are two different entities.

---

dont think so paul

kingdomHoop your last paragraph is incorrect, it is not the united kingdom of great britain, northern ireland is part of the United kingdom not great britain

"Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles. It lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with Ireland to the west and comprises the larger part of the territory of the United Kingdom."

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (usually shortened to the United Kingdom, the UK, or Britain[1]) is a country[2] and sovereign state that lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with the Republic of Ireland to the west."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Actually, Liam, it's all about respect. When it comes to football, we (i.e. the IFA team) are not "the North", we're Northern Ireland (or NI, when typing). Why not respect that?
Similarly, the FAI team is properly termed "Republic of Ireland" (ROI). I respect that.
In fact, if anyone is entitled to use "Ireland" for its football team, it could only be the IFA, but we respect FIFA's ruling in that regard and desist.

:cool:

---

I'm talking about _mutual_ respect. You know - you respect my beliefs and traditions whilst having differing ones yourself.

I have absolutely no problem with you following 'NI' and calling it your national team. You however take umbrage when I refer to my national team as Ireland? Presumably like the IFA, you would try and stop Nationalists playing for Ireland (or ROI if you prefer).

I assume that since you're such a pedant for correct terminology you've never referred to the six counties of the North (or NI if you prefer) as "Ulster" :D


-Liam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

kingdomHoop your last paragraph is incorrect, it is not the united kingdom of great britain, northern ireland is part of the United kingdom not great britain

"Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles. It lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with Ireland to the west and comprises the larger part of the territory of the United Kingdom."

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (usually shortened to the United Kingdom, the UK, or Britain[1]) is a country[2] and sovereign state that lies to the northwest of Continental Europe with the Republic of Ireland to the west."

---

sorry paul, i should have done my research, or paid more attention in school!
i think i understand. i should have said the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. or just the Uk, or would the united kingdom of northern ireland work, hardly i suppose seeing as though NI isnt really united on a lot of levels. i cant believe we, or me, have stooped this low. what oh what would darron gibson think? i thought the good friday agreement clairified this area anyway, arent athletes allowed to represent either team?