Champions League Final

I am just a wee bit suspicious of Stuttgart's attempt to compare emotions and decisions to a number of Ireland's heartbreaking football moments
Do you and Karlos take it in shifts? :)
But I couldn't help contrasting Rijkaard's patient response to that of Van Gaal's panic attack with the opposition down to 10 men. Rijkaard embodies the classic Dutch approach.
As much a turning point as Larsson's entry was, so too was the exit of the substituted Van Bommel on the hour.
Deco looks almost a reformed player, only one blatant dive.

I accept most of the criticisms of Henry's after match comments, but two comments he made (which I've slightly reconfigured) I agree with:

The so-called stars were overshadowed by Larsson's contribution, who those in the know (such as Henry) have always recognised as class.

If Puyol & Marquez had been booked it'd have made Henry's task easier.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

On the punditry last night, the bar I was in (Fitzsimon's in Temple Bar) had Sky Sports on and all Andy Gray kept harping on (and on, and on, and..) for the entire first half was how "the referee has ruined this as a spectacle by not allowing the goal".

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50% of all Andy Gray's commentaries consist of harping on about the referee, no matter what the game.

I thought Henry's comments about Ronaldinho were interesting - hardly the comments of someone on his way to Barca. Strangely, if Arsenal had won I'd say he would definitely have left the club. Now he has unfinished business and there's a greater possibility of him staying.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

In fairness he grabbed Eto by the ankle. It wasn't just momentum carrying him into him.

Oh and I like Lehmann by the way and thought his after match interview was excellent

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Yeah, I concede that I think he made sure he took Eto down (again, something I can say from experience, it's something you just do) but I think he'd probably have brought him down anyway. Still, it was split-second rash judgment, not outright cheating. Goalkeepers are the players far more exposed to a straight red card than any other, sometimes harshly, sometimes not. Lehmann's red card was not harsh. In fairness to Lehmann , he was out very quickly, not many forwards are as quick as Eto, but yes, it was obviously an error of judgment.

I thought the interview was excellent too.

Enjoyed it myself, especially Henkes contribution and the icing on the cake was Henry giving him a special mention in the post match interview!!

Flicked between ITV ans Sky and both sets of commentators drove me nuts!

- Arsenal played extremely well and Its hard to take when you hold out for 75mins but end up losing. Toure, Gilberto, Hleb & Llunberg put in good shifts but generally they all played well with 10 men.

- Henry played well in spurts but missed 2 one on ones which was critical. His booking was wrong but he should look at bit harder at his own contribution.

- Lehamanns challenge was shocking - Im sure Barca would have preferred a 1-0 lead and 11 v 11 (decision was to arsenals benefit). Effectively it was a2 footed tackle outside the area. If an outfield player had done it, goal scoring opportunity or not - he would have been off.

- The freekick award was incorrect for Eboue's dive. In fact by the letter of the law Eboue should have been sent off for a 2nd booking. (decision was to arsenals benefit).

- Eto'o's goal was declared onside by Sky Pundits - He looked level but as Stuttgart says it could easily not have been given as you do see week in week out.

- With regards Henrys comments on the Ref. I think Karlos said they where bang on the nail. "The ref should have been wearing a Barcelona shirt"?? Really? I have to disagree, the ref had an average game. Lehmanns indiscipline, Henrys poor finishing were well above the ref in terms of who should take the blame for Arsenals defeat- if anything the ref gave them a helping hand on the key decisions.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

In fairness he grabbed Eto by the ankle. It wasn't just momentum carrying him into him.

Oh and I like Lehmann by the way and thought his after match interview was excellent

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I agree, Lehmann's interviews and comments are usually laid back, interesting and intelligent, even humorous. It's in contrast to the type of character you might think he is from some of his on field OTT emotions.

Alumina's save from Eto was superb. Even with the help of slow motion the deflection was just about perceptable.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I

Tell me honestly Neil, is your dislike of Lehmann (which I understand) directing your opinion on this? If it was Shay Given would it have been one of those things that can happen a 'keeper or the actions of a cheat?

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If Shay Given had of done it I would have been very angry with him and I would have blamed him for the incident rather than blame the ref. It seems that players blame refs rather than fellow players. Thats why the comparison with Roy Keane earlier was not accurate as i think rightly or wrongly Keane blames his own players and himself for mistakes made in games rather than the referees. This is after the game I must say, there is nobody better at "talking" to the ref during a game than keane.

I think Eto'o made sure Lehmann took him down, he released the ball rather than shot and kept running in a straight line. At this point Lehmann had already dived to stop the (anticipated) shot, and it was too late to get out of the away.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I think Eto'o made sure Lehmann took him down, he released the ball rather than shot and kept running in a straight line. At this point Lehmann had already dived to stop the (anticipated) shot, and it was too late to get out of the away.

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I'm afraid not, Its quite clear in the replay that Lehman grabbed his foot after missing the ball. Eto'o was away had he not done that.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

At this point Lehmann had already dived to stop the (anticipated) shot, and it was too late to get out of the away.

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then surely had he saved that shot he would have received a red card for handball outisde the box anyway

The referees bad decision was blowing the whistle too soon on Lehmanns foul - once he blew the whistle had no choice but to send him off. However it was Lehmanns deliberate foul which forced the refs hand. No foul would have meant no need for ref to make bad decision.

I thought Henry was very poor especially the missed chance at 1-0. World Clas players have to produce it at the highest level & he fluffed it when he had that chance. Much easier to score when playing Sunderland.

Barca deserved to win. I think if Etos goal had been allowed & Arsenal still at 11 men would have created the space behind the Arsenal defence for them to expose.

I always wondered if Larsson was actually nay good as the SPL hardly a challenge but he has impressed when seen him for Barcelona this year.

In the end the Barcelona substitutes won the game.

RTE commentary was ok but anytime i flicked over to Sky Andy Gray was in full moan mood. :eek:

i feel a bit cheated that barca won with two jammy goals, second one a pure mishap by a known donkey beletti

as a neutral the clever skillfull football was played by arsenal

Ron never turned up so us neutrals were left feeling shortchanged by the whole thing

First barca goal couldn't be called Jammy. great play and a class finish. Winner obviously a bit lucky

theres a brilliant etoo's angle view of the 1st one and almunia clearly gifts him the inside post - criminal goalkeeping

id kill someone if they did that in astro - etoo just passed it in, didnt even need to shoot


"use your hands almunia!" :D

Who was the first Arsenal player booked by the way? (Not Henry - think it was Eboue?) He was fairly lucky to stay on the pitch too - nasty challenge with studs up nowhere near the ball.

Almunia was fairly poor for both goals - beaten at his near post and through his legs. Arsenal should have kept Graham Stack instead! :)

Cop on wws, it was a good finish at a tight angle, he switched to his right foot to shape up for a shot across goal but dragged into the near corner.
It would have been correct to say that Barca can win without Ronaldinho playing well while Henry could star and still lose.
However, don't think Henry was as brilliant as made out by some.
Was lively in the first twenty minutes but still missed given the chance (well maybe he created the chance aswell). Wasn't in the game much after that imo.
Ronaldinho had a very quiet night though his pass for the sending off was sweet.
Delighted for Larsson.
Got one season at a shot of proper glory and took it.
Well deserved.

Actually, on the commentary, I was watching the match in the Montrose last night, and they had both RTÉ and Sky Sports on. RTÉ was a whole five seconds ahead of Sky, but the main telly was Sky and the sound was on the Sky version. So you'd be watching Sky, watching Ronaldinho lining up a free-kick and then remember you could look at the RTÉ telly to see what he did with it while he was still lining it up on Sky! Moved seats after half-time to watch RTÉ, but you could still hear everyone else in the bar reacting five seconds later to what we'd already seen. Wierd...

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Who was the first Arsenal player booked by the way? (Not Henry - think it was Eboue?) He was fairly lucky to stay on the pitch too - nasty challenge with studs up nowhere near the ball.

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Yep Eboue - same guy who dived shortly afterwards to win the freekick resulting Arsenals goal..............lucky to stay on the pitch IMO.

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Originally Posted by pete

I always wondered if Larsson was actually nay good as the SPL hardly a challenge but he has impressed when seen him for Barcelona this year.

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Has scored a couple in a Uefa Cup final as well as a semi final winner + the numerous goals in CL games for Celtic. - His class was never in any doubt through my admittedly green tinted specs!!

That happens in every telly on McCurtain Street in Cork.
Must be an extra Sky connection or something cos its a good 3 or 4 seconds behind.
I doubt Larry got his ticket anyway unfortunately.
Meant to have been thousands looking for them at crazy prices.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Actually, on the commentary, I was watching the match in the Montrose last night, and they had both RTÉ and Sky Sports on. RTÉ was a whole five seconds ahead of Sky, but the main telly was Sky and the sound was on the Sky version. So you'd be watching Sky, watching Ronaldinho lining up a free-kick and then remember you could look at the RTÉ telly to see what he did with it while he was still lining it up on Sky! Moved seats after half-time to watch RTÉ, but you could still hear everyone else in the bar reacting five seconds later to what we'd already seen. Wierd...

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Yeah it happens on most TVs. The digital signal is about 5 seconds slower than the normal signal. At home If I watch RTE through the digital tv its about 5 seconds behind the the RTE through the normal TV.]]


Oh by the way Arsenal now have the lovely record of losing in all 3 European Finals, Champions Cup, Cup Winnners Cup and Uefa Cup.


Finally I do have to laugh at Henry saying he never saw ETo for the whole night etc etc. Well he must have bad eyesight cause Eto was at the centre of Lehmann getting sent off and he managed to score a goal something Henry failed to do.