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Agree with this point. You could save money by having the players travel in cars, but it's not great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
In an ideal world, I'd have travel costs covered centrally (reduce prize money, if needs be). A centralised contract with BÉ, for example, would surely be cheaper overall.
That's not a bad idea at all, if they could be convinced to be sponsors and somehow factor (some of) the costs in.
Absolutely not! I'm just struggling to see how the system will be changed. I think a proper pyramid is needed. I think it can be changed both from the bottom up and the top down simultaneously. But a lot of money is requiredQuote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Or in the absence of a lot of money, rather than do nothing, that a phased approach is taken. It would be nice to see an endgame target of €x per club partifipation fee by 202y.
One man's "participation fee" is another man's "bribe".Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
And why pay a select 20 clubs to participate, but leave out all the clubs below this tier? (I say "20", but should LOI Reserve teams also be paid?)
While FD sides would demand something similar to "level up", esp since PD sides also get UEFA money.
And how much are we talking about? (Up to) Twenty NL teams would eat up a fair amount, season after season, and who's going to pay it?
Could only be the FAI who, as we know, are skint. Meaning that any such budget would be at the expense of either the wider game in the country (grassroots, women, youth, community etc) and/or the NT, who generate the majority of FAI funds in the first place.
And those are just the practical considerations - as a matter of principle, surely clubs should be required to operate according to their own resources at whatever level they achieve, if they (and the competition) are to be sustainable over the long term?
My commesnt is in relation to prizemoney spoken about by Buckett and how it will be the fault of the FAI for clubs not getting involved without money being on offer. Clubs at that level should be happy with silverware and/or prestige really. But there should be some way at looking to address any increase in costs (not player budgets) when joining the new system. Over time there could be participaton payments if say we got a TV deal.
I agree wholeheartedly with you on this and am just curious to hear your take on where the bottom would start - county level? (e.g. Mayo), regional districts? (e.g. Tipp's North and South leagues, West & East leagues in Cork), or go even smaller? (I don't know if there's leagues at this level... But I'd love to find out. Maybe this would have to be by parish or townland if there's enough teams?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
Regarding the bottom, it just needs tidying up a small bit.
Take Cork for example, there's junior leagues there but there's also junior divisions of the Munster Senior League. Same with the LSL.
I think there are too many leagues. I don't think they have to be based on counties either.
Re the bottom, in Kerry at least, the county leagues range from the purely recreational clubs that form and re-fold in the bottom divisions on an annual basis, the more structured clubs whose fortunes rise and fall depending on the fortunes of the local GAA team (Fenit, Rattoo, Castlegregory, etc) and then the top sides who would be capable of progressing in a restructured regional intermediate tier (the two Killarneys, Dynamos, Listowel Celtic, Brendan's Park). As such, I would have:Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfman
Premier Division > First Division > National League > Provincial (Intermediate) Leagues > County (Junior) Leagues
Imo only division that covers the entire province would be necessary in most regions (perhaps Leinster is an exception).Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
I'd split provinces regionally below that level, so for example after the Munster Senior League, you'd have something like North/South Munster Premier Division and North/South Munster First Division, and then either a split into County basis or your current Junior leagues.
At the moment there's two leagues in Limerick, two leagues in Tipperary etc, you could argue for these to feed into one County wide league, before flowing up into North Munster (or East/West if you preferred instead of North/South).
Any time the steps seem too big it may put more clubs off from wanting to be involved in the process.
So Premier Division> First Division> National League> Provincial League> Region of Provincial League, County League> Junior/region of county (eg. North Tipp) may be the best way to go.
So if you do organise your structure around basically geographical or traditional ideas of Province/Region/County etc, how do you cope with the fact that some of these delineated areas will have lots of clubs which are competitive, strong and sustainable both on and off the field; whereas other areas will struggle for numbers?Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEars
I mean, it's been glaringly obvious for years with eg the deterioration or demise of the Connacht and Ulster Leagues, versus the growing strength of the Dublin clubs. And I know you must all be sick of me referring to NI/IL, but our set-up accepts that two of our regional associations (Co.Antrim and Mid Ulster) are always going to be much stronger than the other two (Fermanagh & Western, North West), and so looks to strengthen and expand by encouraging and rewarding the most progressive clubs via a pyramid, irrespective of where they are located.
If the Dublin clubs are stronger, then they'll likely take the majority of places in the Leinster Premier Division and be the ones most likely to get promoted to the National League (and potentially above).Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Their increased strength will be reflected in having more teams in tiers 4 & 5 than other places.
Btw there are some very strong Junior clubs in Munster (outside Cork) and Connacht who'll probably be more than capable of challenging to get into the National League but don't currently have a reasonable opportunity to play at Provincial level.
What's your alternative proposal btw ?
Thanks for the suggestions folks! Some great ideas here and I'd be keen to hear more from you Buckett about the benefits of not limiting the leagues to county borders.
My own view was similar to culloty82 and BigEars in terms of the county leagues, with allowances made for natural divisions like West Cork and South Tipp. However, that view was personally based more on Irish tradition & GAA mindset so if there's a better way I'm definitely interested.
The point about weaker provinces from EG is a good one: how to ensure teams in less traditional strongholds don't get left behind if we move to a meritocracy? I guess the hope is better league regulations (stadiums, youth, training facilities) and proper enforcement of them would help the cream rise to the top, meaning the CSL and USL would return one day, even if it was as a merger of the two.
Grants might help level the playing field but I honestly think the biggest boost to development of weaker areas has been the introduction of the national underage leagues. A flawed system, no doubt, but there's a huge difference between kids attitudes to LOI now and when I was playing underage which I would attribute to seeing their friends and family play for LOI teams at youth level.
I certainly wouldn't be against hearing what's worked well in Northern Ireland so fire away EG!
Of course (proper) regionalisation will save costs. If a Mayo team travelling to Louth will cost 1k a mayo team travelling to cork,kilkenny , carlow etc will cost €1.5-2k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
Any idea of how many 3 weeks out from closing date ?
I personally have no idea. I was initially bullish on how many clubs would be aiming to make the step up to compete at a higher level but we have only heard a handful of rumors from different parts of the country.
The FAI put out another statement in the past couple weeks appealing again for submissions to be made before the Feb deadline. I'm not sure if we should be smelling a whiff of desperation to try and stir more interest or if it should just be considered common practice to keep the concept in the headlines.
I remember seeing a post on Facebook thread where the following clubs that have regularly been named as showing credible interest, but were looking for further details obviously.
Monaghan United - Coming off the back of the Monaghan-Cavan Partnership. Have previous league experience.
CK United - which comprises of Carlow/Kilkenny. FC Carlow were in the old A Championship and Kilkenny were in the League of Ireland.
Klub Kildare - Kildare has had league representation with Kildare County before.
Castlebar Celtic
Tullamore Town
Fanad United
Mervue United
Salthill Devon
Maynooth University Town
University College Cork
And it would be nice to see interest in other unrepresented populated provinical areas like Mullingar, Portlaoise, Ennis, Navan
:confused:
What's the score with Monaghan United these days?Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
According to their Wiki page (yes, I know):
"In 2019 the club entered a senior men's team into the Monaghan Cavan League, and in 2021, the club joined the Ulster Senior League, playing one season before re-entering the Monaghan Cavan League."
Yet if you look at the Monagan Cavan League website, though United finished fourth in a seven team league in Season 2023/24, they're not included in the (six team) League for 2024/25:
https://monaghancavanleague.leaguere...8/2/-1/-1.html
Their website is no longer active it seems, while their Facebook page gives the impression that it's all boys and girls stuff i.e. no adult team, men or women?
https://www.facebook.com/monaghanutd/?locale=en_GB
Curiously, the Monagan Cavan League also has a Monaghan Town FC participating both this season and last. Founded in 2005, they also seem to be very active in youth football and also play at least some (all?) games at the Gortakeegan complex:
https://www.facebook.com/monaghantownfc/?locale=en_GB
Though MTFC also seem to be linked with Belgium Park in the town?
Might not there be a reason(s) why those places don't have, or never had, Senior football representation?Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
And does it make sense to try to conjure up some sort of Senior participation from those places solely on the basis they're under-represented? At least if at the expense of existing ambitious, go-ahead clubs who are already proving their potential in their own area even in the face of competition from existing Senior clubs nearby?
Where's the evidence to support the assertion that Dublin non-league clubs have growing strength?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
The few occasions that non-league clubs right across the country get to compete against each other suggest otherwise - e.g. Intemediate and Junior Cup results. Glebe North are the current Intermediate Cup winners (based in very north Co. Dublin), and they beat a Cork team in the final. Co Cork has provided more winners of that trophy over the last 5 years than Dublin has btw. Meanwhile the current Junior Cup holders are Cockhill Celtic from Donegal, who beat Wexford club Gorey in the last final. A Dublin team hasn't made the Junior Cup final since Usher in 2019-20. Dublin clubs fared much better in these competitions a decade or so ago.
So where is the evidence of growing strength from Dublin non-league clubs?
Such as?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen