Ireland Vs Italia (inc scores)

Can't believe how positive everyone is about last night.

We were completely outclassed.
We've got gaps at left back, right wing and central midfield, thanks to Kerr's insistence on holding on for dear life to his 'record' we've seen no plan B in his time as manager and scant few players have been properly blooded should we require them.

What other team would hold the ball up in the corner from a set-piece in a friendly (against Portugal) with ten minutes to go just to protect a meaningless 1-0 lead.

He played 4-5-1 at home in a friendly ffs.

A couple of injuries between now and the French match and we'll be relying on a few bit part players with a handful of caps to get us through our biggest game in years, because Kerr hasn't the balls to give a player like Stephen Elliot a run out in a fcuking friendly.

Oh and for what was a relatively entertaining game, the 'crowd' were once again a complete joke. The half time penalties got more cheers than the team you were there to see.

another thoroughly depressing Landsdowne outing.

in fairness it was 4-3-3 and italy were really looking for a win while we never really had our eye on this game. It was all about France and we had our 2 best players missing. I think we did alright considering.

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Originally Posted by tiktok

Can't believe how positive everyone is about last night.

We were completely outclassed.
We've got gaps at left back, right wing and central midfield, thanks to Kerr's insistence on holding on for dear life to his 'record' we've seen no plan B in his time as manager and scant few players have been properly blooded should we require them.

What other team would hold the ball up in the corner from a set-piece in a friendly (against Portugal) with ten minutes to go just to protect a meaningless 1-0 lead.

He played 4-5-1 at home in a friendly ffs.

A couple of injuries between now and the French match and we'll be relying on a few bit part players with a handful of caps to get us through our biggest game in years, because Kerr hasn't the balls to give a player like Stephen Elliot a run out in a fcuking friendly.

Oh and for what was a relatively entertaining game, the 'crowd' were once again a complete joke. The half time penalties got more cheers than the team you were there to see.

another thoroughly depressing Landsdowne outing.

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Agree 100%. Kerrs treating of international friendlys as competitive games is a complete joke especially when our opponents do not. Elliot is one for the future, hence you play him in a friendly. That's the bloody point of them! Gaurentee you now if Keane is injured in any game Kerr will say Elliot hasn't the experience to play international football.

It's the most frustrating element of the Kerr era. I didn't go last night to see us try and battle against an Italian side making four subs at half time and more worried about future games as their manager knows how to treat friendlys, I wanted to see the likes of Elliot and other players for the future. Finnan at left back should have been given 90 minutes. The way he treats these are a joke.

Did'nt realise there where points at stake in last nights game with Italy.

The headline on Soccercentral is 'Ireland denied a point against Italy' :eek:

I cant understand the last couple of posts criticising the gameplan.

Kerr played 4-5-1 as an experiment to see how we could cope. If you play 4-5-1 then logically only one player can go up front so he cant play Morrison AND Elliot ? Thats what friendlies are for..changing teams and tactics. He moved JOS to centre mid rather than bring on another midfielder to see how JOS would cope in that system.

"finnan should have played 90 minutes" - yes, Im sure Rafa Benitez spoke to Kerr and said 'listen I know he has already played 7 competitive matches in four weeks -dont worry about it , give him another 90." - do me a favour !

We had a number of players out there last night who may not play again before France because of their club situations (Clinton, Miller, S Reid, Harte, ) so they have to take preference over players like Elliot who will play.

Im sure Kerr would have brought Elliot on if he could but I would think his main aim was to allow Morrison as much time as possible in the hope he would get a goal. If CM doesnt get a transfer in the next week that could be his last competitive game before France. We already know what Elliot is capable off and he needs no help with his confidence but I think if he had brought CM off for Elliot, Clinton would have been really disappointed.

We tried a system , it didnt work too well but we learn from the mistakes (expecially at the back). But there were a lot of positives in the performances of Given/Kilbane/Morrison/Elliots 15 mins/JOS/Duff/OBrien

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

in fairness it was 4-3-3.

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In fairness, it was 451. Clinton was a lone striker and the only player to get up to him consistently was Kilbane, that's not a 433 formation, regardless of what Kerr says.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

italy were really looking for a win while we never really had our eye on this game.

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then Kerr's preparation wasn't good enough. The Italians were playing for places, John O'Shea doesn't have to. Because of Kerr's lack of balls, he now has no other options for France.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

we had our 2 best players missing.

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Robbie Keane is nowhere near our top 2 players.

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Originally Posted by wallis

We had a number of players out there last night who may not play again before France because of their club situations (Clinton, Miller, S Reid, Harte, ) so they have to take preference over players like Elliot who will play.

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Fair point, but at the same time, if Robbie Keane gets injured Kerr will now be forced to play either 451 again or Morrison and Doherty/Duff up front because Elliot hasn't been properly blooded. He's been making a balls of friendlies since day 1, this isn't all a reaction to just last night, but last night was a good opportunity to look at Elliott against a physically strong defence, which IMO is a better idea than fcuking around with your formation and having your team unsettled by it in the game immediately before the France one.

There's been plenty of Friendlies where he could have tried this out if he hadn't been obsessed with protecting 1-0 friendly leads, if as you say certain players may not feature again, then wouldn't it make more sense to play them in the roles they'd most likely play in against france,

e.g. play Elliott up front instead of robbie with Clinton

I thought we had a look at Elliott against China and the Faroes, as well as Croatia, although he was out of position then (of which I remain critical). We also saw how Elliott changed things last night. I still think Eliott should have come on at home to Israel but I think Kerr WILL use Elliott against France if either of Clinton or Robbie is injured.

What did we learn last night? That if Robbie is injured then Clinton and Elliott in a 4-4-2 is better than Clinton alone in a 4-5-1. That's pretty important in my view.

If Kerr were to opt for Duff upfront with Robbie out then he should be sacked.


For the most part I'd agree that we haven't used previous friendlies to full effect but I can't criticise Kerr for what he did last night. Quite the opposite, I applaud it.

I think saying Robbie is nowhere near our two best playes is churlish. Duff & Given are our two best in my opinion but Robbie is very close, along with Roy Keane, Finnan & Cunningham.

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

I am afraid I only caught it halfway through but he seemed very relaxed
and jovial, there was quite lot a laughter from the the journalists, unfortunately I missed exactly why. They went on to ask him if he was
willing to take a pay cut (which he took quite well), can't remember what
he replied to that either :rolleyes:
My memory must be going :eek:

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He said something like "Em, I don't know - I wear a lot of diamonds." :cool: Clinton man has a second career in comedy if he doesn't make enough diamonds while still footballing.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I agree with his assessment of the midfield 3 though. The most obvious local exponent of the 4-5-1 is Chelsea. A lone frontman struggles to score regularly so the defence must be rock solid. One of the midfield 3 does nothing but hold. The wide men are key (and Duff & Reid both did well yesterday) but so too is having an attacking midfielder to add to the frontman's contribution. We didn't get the midfield balance right last night.

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The difference here is that we don't have a player capable of doing what Lampard does for Chelsea, Scholes used to for Man Utd or Cahill does for Everton. As for needing a pure defensive mid, I would suggest that Keane can do just that. Furthermore, he often gets an extra body in midfield in Man Utd's CL games now, so he'd be a lot more familiar with that game than the people there yesterday. I thought O'Shea and Stephen Reid did well in midfield, and I wouldn't be distraught to see that lineup against France should Robbie or Clinton be injured (touch wood).

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I thought we had a look at Elliott against China and the Faroes, as well as Croatia, although he was out of position then (of which I remain critical). We also saw how Elliott changed things last night. I still think Eliott should have come on at home to Israel but I think Kerr WILL use Elliott against France if either of Clinton or Robbie is injured.

What did we learn last night? That if Robbie is injured then Clinton and Elliott in a 4-4-2 is better than Clinton alone in a 4-5-1. That's pretty important in my view.

If Kerr were to opt for Duff upfront with Robbie out then he should be sacked.

For the most part I'd agree that we haven't used previous friendlies to full effect but I can't criticise Kerr for what he did last night. Quite the opposite, I applaud it.
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Yes there is a possibility that either morrison or robbie could be injured and the Q is, one up front or bring on Elliot to partner the healthy striker.

Then Kerr must have very very serious doubts about Elliot playing any role against the French or Swiss even if Keane or Morrison get injured.
I would have thought that yes Elliot was good enough
and I would have thought that if we have to use Elliot in the near future then his game would have benifited from an 80 minute run out against the Defense Kings.

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Originally Posted by tiktok

In fairness, it was 451. Clinton was a lone striker and the only player to get up to him consistently was Kilbane, that's not a 433 formation, regardless of what Kerr says.

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It was 4-3-3. Its just that we were caught confused as to where to play. 4-3-3 has been tried before and this is just another go at it.

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then Kerr's preparation wasn't good enough. The Italians were playing for places, John O'Shea doesn't have to. Because of Kerr's lack of balls, he now has no other options for France.

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I disagree. I think Kerr did prepare very well considering half the team hadnt much of a clue about 4-3-3. Only Josh, Duff and ? have played it. Im glad we lost, we were getting to comfortable winning/drawing all the time. It was a good wake up call for France. We have a small squad but everyone will be motivated for the game.

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Robbie Keane is nowhere near our top 2 players.

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Robbie does looks like he should be put back in the school yard but that doesnt mean he isnt our best striker of all time. He will get goals for us and if not then he will take defenders away from clint. Him and Duff are a necessity for Ireland.

Elliott should have played, if not the whole match, then at least the second half. We simply don't have any other strikers other than Robbie Keane, Clinton Morrison and Stephen Elliott. It would be different if he was behind Aldridge, Cascarino, Coyne, Quinn, etc but he's not.

A compilation of Duff's 1st half contribution:
http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=02...N2KPKKAYBZAVRP

Too lazy to do the full match. Any request from the match let me know before I delete it. :)

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Originally Posted by John83

The difference here is that we don't have a player capable of doing what Lampard does for Chelsea, Scholes used to for Man Utd or Cahill does for Everton.

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Agree entirely John, it's actually what I was trying to say, but you put it better. It's a pity because it's the type of role I expected Miller to develop into a couple of years ago. Now it seems the memory of those wonderful goals, arriving late from midfield, against Lyon & Anderlecht was just some acid inspired hallucination? :(

Perhaps Kavanagh's ball playing skills would come somewhere close to getting that formation right. Keane as holder, Kilbane as, well Kilbane, and Kav in a more attacking role.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

What did we learn last night? That if Robbie is injured then Clinton and Elliott in a 4-4-2 is better than Clinton alone in a 4-5-1. That's pretty important in my view.

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I'm not trying to be an ass, but I already knew this was the case, we learned it harshly against Israel, you admit you knew it, Kerr definitely should have.It was a waste of eighty-ish minutes

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think saying Robbie is nowhere near our two best playes is churlish. Duff & Given are our two best in my opinion but Robbie is very close, along with Roy Keane, Finnan & Cunningham.

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There's no doubt Robbie is talented, but IMO there's more than those five players ahead of him in terms of his contribution in matches. While I always think he should be starting, it's only because he's the only natural goalscorer we have, I think in general he's a lazy whiny primadonna who hasn't improved since he first broke into the international side.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

It was 4-3-3. Its just that we were caught confused as to where to play.

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Which is why we ended up playing 4-5-1.

Well in the first half.... the midfield did not channel back to help out at the back which is why we were overrun. The Italians could easily have been 4 or 5 up by half-time. Thankfully Shay Given had an inspired game.

The second half they made changes and Ireland came more into the game.And had a few more chances and were unlucky that Clinton's goal was disallowed.

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Originally Posted by tiktok

Which is why we ended up playing 4-5-1.

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If it was 4-5-1 the italians wouldnt have been running through the midfield like that. 4-5-1 is extremely hard to break down. It was 4-3-3

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

If it was 4-5-1 the italians wouldnt have been running through the midfield like that. 4-5-1 is extremely hard to break down. It was 4-3-3

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4-5-1 is hard to break down only if it's done properly.

They ran through the midfield so easily because Duff, Reid, Reid and Holland weren't arsed to tackle. They were all in midfield; they just weren't interested in defending.

Maybe Kerr intended it to be 4-3-3, but the team on the pitch certainly weren't playing 4-3-3, whether that was through lack of preparation, application or communication I don't know. What I do know is what formation I and those around me saw and discussed.

im not being funny but it was 4-3-3. Thats what kerr sent them out doing, he tried it before against Croatia or someone. It wasnt 4-5-1 end of story.

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Well in the first half.... the midfield did not channel back to help out at the back which is why we were overrun. The Italians could easily have been 4 or 5 up by half-time. Thankfully Shay Given had an inspired game.

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His first right handed save from Vieri where he scooped it towards Dunne and then out for a corner is an absolute classic.
It did frustrate me when he decided to take a first touch on an expected safe enough pass back to him with attacking players some 16m away and closing in on him. Then he looked up to see who is available and by the time he went to hit it he was closed down by an attacker. This is what happenned in the build up to the second goal, his clearance wasn't a pass nor did it find touch. Italy got the ball back in immediately, the defense was at 6's and 7's, despite a great effort by Given the 2nd goal was scored.
A few minutes later, similar pass back on the other side, attacker goes to close down but this time (the inspired) Shay whacks it out first time, safely into touch.

For much of the Italian game we were all over the shop, the players didn't seem to know what their roles were. We conceed goals far to easily and could have ended up getting a hammering.

Kerr has a very poor record when it comes to competitive matches and I personally don't think he has a clue about senior international management, even with the two Keanes back I don't think we have much chance of beating the French.