Republic of Ireland V Ukraine - Wednesday, 8 June 2022 - 2022/23 UEFA Nations League

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Originally Posted by geysir

There comes a time in intl football when there is a first 11, (for the most part) regardless of an off game. The manager sticks with the first 11 (for the most part) through thick and thin. If that's not so with Ireland then we are still experimenting with prospective players, we are still not settled on our best 11, we are still in the process of team building. That means that after 2 years, either we are afflicted with an indecisive incompetent management or/and a bunch of players not good enough to nail down their place at this level.

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Interestingly this is the team for Ireland V Denmark under Mick:
Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Browne, Hendrick, Whelan, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick

This is Kennys one against Bulgaria:
Randolph; Doherty, Duffy, Egan , Stevens; McCarthy, Idah; Hendrick, Hourihane, O'Dowda, Connolly

This was against Belgium:
Kelleher, Coleman, Duffy, Egan, Doherty, Cullen, Hendrick, McClean, Knight, Ogbene, Robinson

There's not much difference between the two sides at the end and start of reigns apart from a couple of retirements, whats noticeable though is those who were shoe-horned in idah/connolly and to a lesser extent O'dowda are nowhere near good enough and proved to be poor selection choices.

Looking at the Belgium game proves we are still fairly reliant on the older pros and his initial idea of just fast tracking u21s and young up and coming individuals was short sighted - ogbene appeared from relative obscurity but clearly impressed in that september pick, Robinson was in and around the team anyway and as I had pointed out was a good player : D and Cullen similarly was in/around the squad and already made his debut the previous year.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Interestingly this is the team for Ireland V Denmark under Mick:
Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Browne, Hendrick, Whelan, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick

This is Kennys one against Bulgaria:
Randolph; Doherty, Duffy, Egan , Stevens; McCarthy, Idah; Hendrick, Hourihane, O'Dowda, Connolly

This was against Belgium:
Kelleher, Coleman, Duffy, Egan, Doherty, Cullen, Hendrick, McClean, Knight, Ogbene, Robinson

There's not much difference between the two sides at the end and start of reigns apart from a couple of retirements, whats noticeable though is those who were shoe-horned in idah/connolly and to a lesser extent O'dowda are nowhere near good enough and proved to be poor selection choices.

Looking at the Belgium game proves we are still fairly reliant on the older pros and his initial idea of just fast tracking u21s and young up and coming individuals was short sighted.

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idah has been pretty good in most games for ireland tbh. connollys been dreadful though

Manning isn't quick enough to play wing back, or tall or commanding enough to play centre back. I don't know what you could do with him really - maybe a deep lying midfielder or something, but we seem to have a few of those coming through that are specialists in the position, so probably no use for him there either.

I can't see him ever being much more than squad cover unless we're really stuck. We may see Bagan and Adaramola replace Stevens and McClean at LWB in the next couple of years with Manning continuing as a backup.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

Manning isn't quick enough to play wing back, or tall or commanding enough to play centre back. I don't know what you could do with him really - maybe a deep lying midfielder or something, but we seem to have a few of those coming through that are specialists in the position, so probably no use for him there either.

I can't see him ever being much more than squad cover unless we're really stuck. We may see Bagan and Adaramola replace Stevens and McClean at LWB in the next couple of years with Manning continuing as a backup.

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I sincerely hope we’re not waiting two more years for those changes.

I see Ukraine have said they will play 11 different players from the start tonight. Thats interesting. They'll be playing for their families tonight.

Going with 1-1 - though i have a sneaking feeling Ukraine will score a very late winner.

It is a pity that so many people are looking at this in such a black or white manner as it relates to SK's suitability for the job. I thought there would be more in the middle on the topic, more that would see the fact that it is still a little grey. It seems like the 2 years of transition (Paul, your example line ups to make a point that there has been limited transition omit so much important context) that SK has overseen has unfairly become a stick to beat him with. I say all this with a belief that stability has arrived, vision is established and that, importantly, positive results and consistent performances are now expected as the norm, at a minimum against our peers and lower. Armenia is the first major black mark against him in my book.

The first, really? Not Luxembourg? Not going behind to Andorra and Azerbaijan?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The first, really? Not Luxembourg? Not going behind to Andorra and Azerbaijan?

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Yeah, the first major one. Don't get me wrong, the rest are definite blemishes (Andorra is irrelevant to me though, we won well). Of these, Luxembourg was particularly tough, a true low, but there was context which mitigated those for me. Primarily, with a new approach and a new and more inexperienced team it is fairly reasonable to expect a few setbacks here and there on an individual game basis. The big picture trajectory since has been objectively and consistently upward, the mitigating factors receding and therefore the expectations solidifying by the time we get to Armenia.

Fair enough, the Andorran goal was the lowest point of Kenny's return at that point for me. Considering it was scored from a similar area to the Luxembourg goal, I was wondering what reviews were being done by the coaching team.
I said it at the time that the biggest factor in the result against Andorra was the fitness and conditioning of the Irish players, the Andorrans were wilting by the end of the game

Let us not forget here, Stephen Kenny has won 2 competitive games. Against Azerbaijan and Luxembourg. That's it. 2 games against minnows. He's been in charge for over 2 years now and the majority of matches we've played have been against average to poor opposition.

I don't think it's possible for anyone to do worse than Kenny has. It really is as bad as even the most pessimistic person could have predicted. Tonight we're playing against Ukraine B at home. There are no excuses, we should win.

Team as expected. Knight for Parrott and Christie for Coleman.

10 Changes for Ukraine. Need to be winning this

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The first, really? Not Luxembourg? Not going behind to Andorra and Azerbaijan?

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Exactly this for me.

If the Nations League was the honeymoon period and Luxembourg was the one free hit, then Andorra, Azerbaijan and Armenia have all been major black marks

No major surprises in the team selected. Christie and Knight should provide some much needed energy and verve. I thought Kenny might have swapped Stevens out for McClean.

After tonight there can't be many UEFA nations left that we haven't played. Moldova is the only one I can think of.

We played Moldova in 2017

Slovenia and Kosovo I think is all

Meanwhile, the match programme starts off by referring to our "impressive" 1-0 win over Lithuania, and goes on to say "A positive result and performance against Armenia was just the start Kenny could have asked for". And on the same page, it has the result as a 1-0 defeat

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Team as expected. Knight for Parrott and Christie for Coleman.

10 Changes for Ukraine. Need to be winning this

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We really do. They've had 2 stonking games in the last 10 days and have just had the disappointment of getting knocked out of the world cup to those absolute... Ahem... So I'd expect them to be pretty flat with the 10 changes to boot.

But who the hell knows at this point.

As I said a few days ago, 7 points from the next 3 games keeps me happy enough. You'd think that this has to be 3 of those 7 points.

Their keeper is the Real Madrid reserve from the CL final, coincidentally enough (seeing as his Liverpool counterpart is starting for us)

They're still better than Armenia I'd say. But so many changes has to help us. Doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

We played Moldova in 2017

Slovenia and Kosovo I think is all

Meanwhile, the match programme starts off by referring to our "impressive" 1-0 win over Lithuania, and goes on to say "A positive result and performance against Armenia was just the start Kenny could have asked for". And on the same page, it has the result as a 1-0 defeat

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A lot of propaganda about these days ~ In so many fields ! !

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

No major surprises in the team selected. Christie and Knight should provide some much needed energy and verve. I thought Kenny might have swapped Stevens out for McClean.

After tonight there can't be many UEFA nations left that we haven't played. Moldova is the only one I can think of.

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Slovenia and Kosovo are the only ones left now

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Exactly this for me.

If the Nations League was the honeymoon period and Luxembourg was the one free hit, then Andorra, Azerbaijan and Armenia have all been major black marks

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I totally understand that perspective. I just don't think size of the job in front of SK over the last couple of years and the subsequent rollercoaster was not to be expected. I'm giving that some weight, maybe too generously, but maybe others (not you per se) are not being generous enough?

The other interesting thing is how much the public has backed him and has continued to stand behind what he is trying to do. In the face of these black marks (or blemishes :)). I think most of these same people will be expecting improvements and consistency in results in this campaign to maintain that goodwill. Anyway, i just find the dynamic overall to be quite fascinating.