Kerry FC

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Kerry FC are "next in line" solely because the FAI has said they are. But not only is there no Kerry FC yet, there's not a "line" either.

In other words, Kerry FC are a "sticking plaster".


"A few years"?

Doesn't sound as if the FAI plans to wait that long:
"Commence consultation on the formation of an Irish football pyramid by Q4, 2022 with an agreed and transformed football pyramid structure in place by 2025"
https://www.fai.ie/domestic/news/fai...-2025-launched

While you've cited four possible entrants who, even if all are willing and successful, would still be somewhat short of a viable third tier of 8 clubs (minimum)


Correction: "If a club progresses successfully from youth football to LOI etc". That is, if Kerry fails, that puts an end to that experiment.

And besides, apart from Meath, who else have you in mind? Remember, not every new entrant in a 3rd tier is sure to manage, even at that level, never mind progress to the next one. Meaning that the pyramid shouldn't just end at the 3rd tier, as though it was somehow hanging in the air, you need Promotion & Relegation in both directions for it to work.


Except that they haven't gone "from the lowest youth league group all the way up to senior [over] a few years", the club is effectively an entirely new creation, irrespective of where it hopes to draw its players and supporters from.

Anyhow, though I've only been to Kerry a couple of times, it seems a nice place with nice people, so good luck to them.

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There aren't enough teams in the First Division currently. Which forces one club to sit it out every week in terms of fixtures, which is just a ballax.

Kerry FC have expressed an interest in stepping up to fill that vacant spot in the FD. There is nothing to stop any other club from saying they're interested too, but as far as I'm aware none have. And there won't be a third tier in place for at least 3yrs.

These are all the facts of the situation. It is therefore completely logical to let Kerry FC make the step up to fill the vacant spot. It helps solve a problem for the league if they do, and broadens the geographical reach of the LOI. All positive stuff. The only possible downside is if they don't last at that level. Firstly - give them a chance before writing them off for feck sake. Secondly, if they can't hack it at that level then we'll be much nearer to the 3rd tier that you're demanding by then anyway. So hopefully they would just bow out and be replaced by the best club from the tier below. If they do join and it doesn't work out before the 3rd tier is in place then hey - that's life. There is no guarantee that a club coming up via a 3rd tier wouldn't hit the wall mid-season either, so it's hardly a bulletproof model. The worst case scenario is that the league ends up back where it is now - with a 9 team FD until a 3rd tier happens. As for any dent to the league's credibility - that's overplayed really (and seems to be more of an issue for those with an axe to grind against the league).

You can continue to argue for a reality that doesn't exist, and you are offering no realistic alternative to the problem we currently have of a 9 team FD and no route for entry. There won't be a 3rd tier introduced for next season, and Kerry FC make sense to extend the league to solve that issue. Plus they're the only team that has publicly said they're interested. This is all just the reality of the situation. Argue all you like in a way that is divorced from that reality and which presents no realistic alternative, but it just sounds like arguing for the sake of it tbh.

Kerry joined the U17 league in 2016. It was a tough season. All the squad were U17 in the following season. Kerry had won the Kennedy Cup in 2015 and the U15 Galway Cup.
Kerry joining the First Division will be just as difficult and under much more public scrutiny for obvious reasons.
Kerry have competed well in the Oscar Traynor Cup and in the League Cup down through the years. There is a bubbling footballing pedigree. It'll take 2 to 3 years to gain a reasonable foothold in the First Division. Kerry aren't going for the Sporting Fingal approach. It's going to be a slow burner and a difficult one.
Looking at other sporting codes like basketball and hurling, Kerry do compete in those sports. There will be a quiet confidence that if the club can avoid financial difficulties and coming in as the 10th team, that there can be a competitive challenge to those a place or two higher in the league. Time will tell of course.

Basketball is an interesting case in Tralee - the Superleague games regularly draw attendances of roughly 1,000, so one could argue that the club draws on home support (with admittedly the odd American import) to be competitive at the top level, rather than fans jumping on a bandwagon, but it also shows that it isn't just Gaelic that has a support base waiting to be tapped into. As legendz says, though, it's a question of whether that enthusiasm would last through the long-term strategy of gradually climbing the table season by season.

Cabinteely's progress over 7 seasons:
'15. 8/8, 20 points.
'16. 7/8, 16 points.
'17. 6/8, 38 points.
'18. 7/10, 30 points.
'19. 4/10, 50 points.
'20. 7/10, 26 points. (18 matches)
'21. 9/10, 25 points.

The gradual progress by Cabinteely over the first 3 seasons is interesting. In 2019 then they reached the playoffs.
If Kerry can challenge for the 5th play-off spot after 3 or 4 years, they'll be going well. Bray Wanderers who merged with Cabinteely are a bit a drift of the playoffs in 7th. A reflection of the difficult challenge that lies ahead.
Knowledgeable people who know football and the competitiveness of the league, will not be expecting an overnight success. Kerry FC were making the right noises last week in setting very realistic expectations.
A lot of families have had someone play for the Kerry youth sides in recent years. Mounthawk Park has been used for a lot of local league matches. Mounthawk was packed to the rafters for the U17 final against Bohemians 3 years ago.
Kerry FC joining the First Division will be the fruition of many years of hard work. The key is to have a core support group to journey with them in what they are seeking to achieve.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

To be fair, I don't think either Mervue or Salthill had adequate facilities for League of Ireland football.

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Have to agree with you on this Nigel. Reminds me of the time I had the car I spent a full hr navigating the back rds trying to find SDs ground. It wasnt on the satnav at all! Stopped a local he never heard of them finally after speaking to another person he sent me on the right path. Trouble was I missed the whole first half. Think it was last game of 2011 season!

I think kerry will surprise people.
By their nature they stick together and rally around locals.
Us against the reat. Think the healy rays.
They are also ferocious networked and money raisers.
Talking modestly is the way they do things but something tells me they will be planning for more

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

I think kerry will surprise people.
By their nature they stick together and rally around locals.

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Hurling and basketball have their core support. Time will tell if the KDL community will get behind Kerry FC. Bringing that community along on the journey, with a grounded reality on ambitions and targets, is crucial.
Clubs have been known to leave their core support disgruntled. Something that must be avoided.

From today's Kerry's Eye ​we learn that the astroturf at Mounthawk Park must be upgraded from "quality" standard to "professional" by February, and all the seating must be similarly replaced. Also, that an average attendance of 1,500-3,000 "depending on the opposition" is being targeted, but in truth 500-1,000 would seem far more realistic for the First Division, with that doubled at a push for a home Cup tie against a Premier club.

The reported required ground improvements seem fair. A crowd of 500-1500 would seem more realistic alright in the league, with double that for a high profile Cup clash.
The more Munster clubs in the First Division the better, for the first season. An extra reason to want Cork to slip in their promotion push! 😉

Those figures are wishful thinking. Established Dublin clubs sometimes struggle to get those numbers at times.
Cabinteely attendances would be a more accurate barometer. I think they had 1.5 - 2K in their 1st ever match and then attendances dropped and dropped and eventually levelled off in the low hundreds.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

You can continue to argue for a reality that doesn't exist, and you are offering no realistic alternative to the problem we currently have of a 9 team FD and no route for entry.

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I described KFC as a "sticking plaster" i.e. solves the FD/9 team problem, for the moment at least*.

But while some people are getting excited about what it does for regional expansion and Youth League development etc, it does nothing for a 3rd tier, never mind a pyramid stretching further down below that.

All of which reflects that the present organisation of domestic adult football in ROI is simply unfit for purpose, which I'm sure you all know far better than me. But what nobody seems to acknowledge is that it surely needs to be torn up and replaced by a completely new structure which would allow for P&R from the ground up i.e. from Junior, through Intermediate, to Senior.

Which, even if the vision, commitment and funding were there, would take a decade to implement (minimum), or more likely two. Yet while this is a compelling argument for starting now, beyond a couple of vague sentences in some glossy FAI Mission Statement, there are no signs yet of any of it happening anywhere.

Thats it, really.


* - What would happen if, eg, Athlone were to fold? Where would the next Kerry FC come from?

I might have added that all of the above is outwith the thorny problem of accommodating the Summer/Winter calendar problem.

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Originally Posted by Philosophizer

Those figures are wishful thinking. Established Dublin clubs sometimes struggle to get those numbers at times.
Cabinteely attendances would be a more accurate barometer. I think they had 1.5 - 2K in their 1st ever match and then attendances dropped and dropped and eventually levelled off in the low hundreds.

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Cabinteely could only dream of low hundreds.
I remember a club official telling me they ran a promotion free pint and a burger with your €10 admission and 96 people paid in....

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I described KFC as a "sticking plaster" i.e. solves the FD/9 team problem, for the moment at least*.

But while some people are getting excited about what it does for regional expansion and Youth League development etc, it does nothing for a 3rd tier, never mind a pyramid stretching further down below that.

All of which reflects that the present organisation of domestic adult football in ROI is simply unfit for purpose, which I'm sure you all know far better than me. But what nobody seems to acknowledge is that it surely needs to be torn up and replaced by a completely new structure which would allow for P&R from the ground up i.e. from Junior, through Intermediate, to Senior.

Which, even if the vision, commitment and funding were there, would take a decade to implement (minimum), or more likely two. Yet while this is a compelling argument for starting now, beyond a couple of vague sentences in some glossy FAI Mission Statement, there are no signs yet of any of it happening anywhere.

Thats it, really.


* - What would happen if, eg, Athlone were to fold? Where would the next Kerry FC come from?

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In the same article, it was mentioned that the Conference League third tier was scheduled to begin in 2024, with the Mayo, Kilkenny and Kildare District Leagues all cited as sides who would be involved - whether that date actually holds is another matter, but it's probably the best that can be practically hoped for in terms of expanding the geographical range of the League.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I described KFC as a "sticking plaster" i.e. solves the FD/9 team problem, for the moment at least*.

But while some people are getting excited about what it does for regional expansion and Youth League development etc, it does nothing for a 3rd tier, never mind a pyramid stretching further down below that.

All of which reflects that the present organisation of domestic adult football in ROI is simply unfit for purpose, which I'm sure you all know far better than me. But what nobody seems to acknowledge is that it surely needs to be torn up and replaced by a completely new structure which would allow for P&R from the ground up i.e. from Junior, through Intermediate, to Senior.

Which, even if the vision, commitment and funding were there, would take a decade to implement (minimum), or more likely two. Yet while this is a compelling argument for starting now, beyond a couple of vague sentences in some glossy FAI Mission Statement, there are no signs yet of any of it happening anywhere.

Thats it, really.


* - What would happen if, eg, Athlone were to fold? Where would the next Kerry FC come from?

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Athlone Town 2022 Limited

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

* - What would happen if, eg, Athlone were to fold? Where would the next Kerry FC come from?

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Presumably the same place that the last Kerry FC came from :D

Anyone know what the capacity of Mounthawk Park is, or will be ?

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Anyone know what the capacity of Mounthawk Park is, or will be ?

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Stand holds 500 as it currently sits. Don't see any other terracing or covered spectator areas. Given that, you'd have to guess around 2,000 capacity with 500 seats?

Jackman Park has 261 seating and a safe capacity of 2450. Mounthawk Park just has that stand. Wikipedia would seem to be right about 500 seating and safe capacity of 2000.
Ballybofey noted as 400 seating and 4600 safe.
Gortakeegan 620 (2000) and Ferrigcarrig 609 (2000) are other notable mentions for comparison.
The Markets Field 1710 (3075) is a good target plan depending on progress. A full length stand would double seating capacity.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

* - What would happen if, eg, Athlone were to fold? Where would the next Kerry FC come from?

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Either Athlone II (as sbgawa says) or - well, there's a reason the LoI has reduced from 22 teams to 19 in the past 15 years...