Negative Media

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Originally Posted by Green Force

Tv figures, eh rte probably made them up to flog advertising for matches advertisers didnt want to pay for.

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I've agreed with most of what you've said Green Force but there's an element of ignoring the facts above that don't suit your opinion.

I think that a lot of eL fans are too quick to blame the media for the leagues problems though. The media are commercial organisations and the crowds attending eL games simply don't justify large ammounts of coverage.

One criticism I have of the media though is that they're very reactive. It was known to every dog on the eL street that Rovers didn't have their financial house in order but the media showed no interest in breaking the story. Had the media put the spotlight on Rovers a few years ago they could have done Rovers and the league a great service.

I thinkwe are entitled to criticise the media when they proint mathc reports on meaningless English Championship (new old 1st division) games & SPL have NO ONE in this country has any interest in. Sure people may look at the result when in front of them but how many people actually reading those macth reports.

Again there is a certain level of interest in the top EPL clubs but again NO ONE cares about the bottom EPL teams aside from novelty factor on last day of the season.

Even Newstalk who have good eL coverage have got lazy taking BBC 5 Live commentary on such delights as Birmingham v Fulham which definitely has no stonger pull than local eL games.

The irish media are lazy & pack their newspapers full of english wire service match reports.

:rolleyes:

Yep, I think it's awfully important that Runcorn, Northwich Victoria and Spennymore get page space over here on a Sunday. Unbelieveable when those type of results are in the Sunday newspapers while Eircom matches are ignored. And I don't buy the deadline excuse either.
Cork City, Bohs, Shels etc regularly get pretty good crowds so I don't buy this small attendance excuse. Bad teams in all sports get bad crowds yet there are reports of games involving college hurling matches each Sunday (and rightly so) but no League of Ireland.
Media, with exceptions, just could't be ar$ed.

i think we do a good job of keeping the most important form of media up to date :)

Again very long winded.

To simplyfy my point and in direct relation to the post title "Negative Media", the media are not negative, they cover the stories that deserve to be covered.

now, on to specific points...

*why does a foreign league confer the right OVER the national league
>>>> more people want to read about it.

*There are far more fans that than rest assured and i'll tell you that because i know that at least half that number exist in Cork alone
>>>>eh so cork are getting 30,000 at every game so?

*Positive points are not interesting
>>>> if they were so interesting they would be getting covered. Us LoI fans may want to read about them but its NOT goin to happen ny time soon.

*400 Club How you cant see a plus point there clearly questions you eyesight !!
>>>> but the 400 club ARE getting positive coverage because they have their act together and ARE promoting the club properly.

*That .... again is two points and they contradict each other. Media dont have to promote the league .... fair enough, point taken ... just report the facts, nice one.
>>>> not a contradiction, it is not their job to promote the league, and I get the paper every day and the league is being reported on, not promoted.

*But to then ...... in response to what you claim, sells papers ... fabricate, and mould lies and tell half truths and play on peoples ignorance about the league, just to sell papers is not fair at all.
>>>> Rubbish.

*To deflect responsiblity for promoting the league on one hand and then on the other, engineer ways to sell papers for short term gain on the other hand is just despicable !! Can you see now what i am saying ...... unbalanced.
>>> thats not unbalanced. if there are positive stories worth reporting they get reported on. FACT. There are more negative ones though.

* Uefa licence. Ok in clearer terms the current licence, drafted by the FAI, is a total mess. It is aspirational and has no mechanism to force the implementation of its suggestions and it does not provide sanctions to force implementation that are legally binding. Hence any club could challenge the FAI's decisions in court and the fact is the FAI want to avoid that.

Green Force

1/ 200,000 people watch live Eircom League games on TV

I am sure they would have enjoyed reading about the game in the Saturday morning's papers.

2/ The Premiership rarely gets more than 125,000 viewers

On this basis alone there should be less Premiership coverage in the Papers than the EL!


In the Czech Republic (population 10,000,000 approx) the highest crowd the last weekend I was there was just under 6,000.

The same weekend Cork City from this country ( population 4,000,000) had a crowd approximately the same size.

Therefore on that basis per capita twice as many people attended the EL game in question as attended the Czech game in Question.

Our papers have relatively little coverage of the EL
The Czech papers are full of their own League.

On no basis does the stance of the Irish newspapers make any sense!

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Originally Posted by Green Force

To simplyfy my point and in direct relation to the post title "Negative Media", the media are not negative, they cover the stories that deserve to be covered.

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:p ... but this is one of my points !! :) ..... who is judge and does the jury have any say in this ???

Seriously though ...... just step back and ask yourself ..... If you pose the question to yourself ....

"Are the media picking the correct stories to fully report on the league"

Alright ..... i'll add this ..... if the eircom League improves to a point where it is worthy of proper coverage ..... i know you'll say this wont happen, etc. etc. .... but i am saying IF ....IF the league is turning a corner and improves wnough to warrant proper coverage .... WHEN is the point the media should change their policy ??

Seriously ..... i'd say if you can answer that ..... honestly .... you'd be doing well.



"now, on to specific points..." :)

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*why does a foreign league confer the right OVER the national league
>>>> more people want to read about it.

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I say you are wrong ..... as CollegeTillIDie said ..... it appears that the numbers are in favour with the league.

If this is the case ...... then again i ask ........

Who decides ...... and by what metric ..... and what time frame ??

Does / will / would the media represent or reflect the numbers that are interested ??

How do they guage ?? How do they market research so to speak ??

Do they ACTUALLY know ..... or do they unknowingly PRESUME they know !!

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*There are far more fans that than rest assured and i'll tell you that because i know that at least half that number exist in Cork alone
>>>>eh so cork are getting 30,000 at every game so?

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No ... but there are 10,000 regular attending fans .... (there are more but the survey rounded down) and .... there are fans with in a 50 mile radius that have an interest, (i.e. would buy a paper to read how City got on) in the league that exceeds 30,000 ... but in a recent poll to find the all time top City team etc. there were 8600 votes (and the demographics say that 10% will have voted, out of the people who read that part of the paper) I think that might be a bit high but .... to answer your question .... well over 30000 people interested in Citys games alone ..... and if you were to look further i'd say you would be suprised.

I am not privie to all the numbers and figures .... but i'd definitely say that there are alot of people who dont get to games and RELY on the paper to see what is going on ... the is where the paper could play a good role .... by reporting the whole story and not selecting what that particular journalist wants etc.

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*Positive points are not interesting
>>>> if they were so interesting they would be getting covered. Us LoI fans may want to read about them but its NOT goin to happen ny time soon.

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See .... my previous points disagree with this .... my point here is that i want to CONTEST the fact that "if they were so interesting they would be getting covered" .... i want to contest it because i think it is a flawed argument .... and because it is flawed ..... the league isn't getting the coverage it deserves. It is THAT argument that i dont agree with and the whole purpose of the thread.

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*400 Club How you cant see a plus point there clearly questions you eyesight !!
>>>> but the 400 club ARE getting positive coverage because they have their act together and ARE promoting the club properly.

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A drop in the National Football League ocean !!!

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*That .... again is two points and they contradict each other. Media dont have to promote the league .... fair enough, point taken ... just report the facts, nice one.
>>>> not a contradiction, it is not their job to promote the league, and I get the paper every day and the league is being reported on, not promoted.

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No ... you missed my point.

My point is basically .... the media (to give it a name, i am generalising obviously) ... the media want their cake and eat it !!

By this i mean .... in short

I said that the media have a choice, to promote or not promote the league, .... am i said fair nuff

We'd both agree that choice to take is NOT promote the league but simply to REPORT on it ...... we are agreed to this point.

The problem stems from here ..... the media ..... Dont report properly on the league. It is not balanced (objective opinion, i.e. It is one sided ... and thats alway the bad side) ....... it is not the full story, as regards covering all issues concerning the league (i.e. Not the full picture) ...... and .....

take in this next point now ....

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*But to then ...... in response to what you claim, sells papers ... fabricate, and mould lies and tell half truths and play on peoples ignorance about the league, just to sell papers is not fair at all.
>>>> Rubbish.

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You say rubbish .... and i say exactly ..... it is rubbish, complete and utter, rubbish reporting on the league at stages .... look at thecorner's post ... Paul "i am based in the US" Daly ...... reported on a match and he was in a different time zone, country, continent .... might just as well have been a different planet. Cringe factor for the guy was through the roof .... he got it horribly wrong .... and lead to a radio phone in that totally exposed the guy. Bab move on his part .... but in fairness ... you tried to chance it and got caught out.

You say it is rubbish, as in not true ..... i tell you a very very different story !! I'd hold my hands up if i was wrong ..... but i am not ..... when i said the punter is being cheated earlier .... i really really meant it, because i objectively see both sides and it is like hindsight .... there are horror stories. That is largely my problem .... surely you must understand this ....

What i am saying is that, at times ... it is so far from the truth .... it doesn't bare thought !! Alarm bells, sirens ... whatever you need .... i am telling you there is a problem.

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*To deflect responsiblity for promoting the league on one hand and then on the other, engineer ways to sell papers for short term gain on the other hand is just despicable !! Can you see now what i am saying ...... unbalanced.
>>> thats not unbalanced. if there are positive stories worth reporting they get reported on. FACT. There are more negative ones though.

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It is unbalanced .... that is not the problem .... It is highlighting the fact that it is unbalanced.

FACT ...... i am telling you that it is not FACT

How have you come up with that ..... how do you know it is FACT !!


Should it not be more along the lines of report the events as they happen .... be objective ..... impartial ..... neutral

Do you know what i mean .... What i am saying is ...... along the lines of "Tell it how it is !!"

By you saying .... there is more negative ..... on news that hasn't happened yet !! .... there is a glaring error on your behalf

How can you decide on news that has NOT happened yet ??

Can you see what i am saying ??

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* Uefa licence. Ok in clearer terms the current licence, drafted by the FAI, is a total mess. It is aspirational and has no mechanism to force the implementation of its suggestions and it does not provide sanctions to force implementation that are legally binding. Hence any club could challenge the FAI's decisions in court and the fact is the FAI want to avoid that.

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I wont claim to know this one .... you could be right ....


But


Are they the same guildlines that every other association are given ??

This league is implementing the licencing (granted you say there are problems and i agree, they need to be copperfastened) .... but do you think .... in your own opinion that .....

A. The FAI/the league deserve a break for being on of the first leagues to get this going, to not learn for others mistakes, to get stuck in and implement it.

B. The system being implemented ..... again you say is flawed .... but the system and the end product ... every club in the league are looking at their situation and looking at a means to improve them ... with the licencing as a blue print.

They are improving .... even with the "flawed blue print" ... and will continue to improve .... so even if it is flawed, is there nothing to be said for its impact !!

In the last five years ... there have been good changes, if you want to see them ... you will .... if you dont want to see them, you by your own conviction will ensure you wont see them.

Either way .... the league is improving and time is its friend. The columns and word counts will stay roughly the same ... but the clubs wont .... they will continually chip away improving etc. .... taking all the breaks it can along the way .... and will increasing grow to be a better product for the punter .... it will (IMO) come to the stage where the media WILL have to fall in line or face the possiblity of being exposed and seen for all its errors and inaccuracies. Kicking and screaming as they say .... sure we'll all just wait and see !!

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Originally Posted by A face

to answer your question .... well over 30000 people interested in Citys games alone

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I just want to add to this ..... to just have said it really .... :)

That is 30,000 people without proper coverage ...... Disproportionate paper coverage, mixed (some good alright, credit where its due) but practically no TV coverage. If you compare to foreign football, it is not worth talking about. The radio is OK, mixed aswell but again, dont go comparing ... you wont like what you see.

My point ..... that is 30,000 without proper coverage, with no support or promotion ...... if you did the figures and looked at the demographics and research and mirrored that ... can you imagine what it would be ??




If it were a level playing field ...... ???

To simplify even more, a handfull of sports editors decide what is reported in their papers. If they dont sell their papers they lose their job.

*IF the league is turning a corner and improves wnough to warrant proper coverage..... Yeah but thats my point, if/when that happens coverage will improve and have more positives to report. thats the reality and until that happens there'll be more oilygates and licence/rules controversies.


*I say you are wrong ..... as CollegeTillIDie said ..... it appears that the numbers are in favour with the league.... true, and if the FAI had their act together in this regard they might capitalise on the viewing figures.

*Does / will / would the media represent or reflect the numbers that are interested ?? ....Journalists are inherrently lazy cnuts, they need to be force fed, whether hacks or editors..

*How do they guage ?? How do they market research so to speak ??... they dont, the clubs/fai should, and spoon feed them to get coverage on this basis.


*I hate cork and don't really give a toss, but they dont get 30,000 a game full stop, so give up the pedantics, crowds are brutal everywhere.

*I am not privie to all the numbers and figures .... but i'd definitely say that there are alot of people who dont get to games and RELY on the paper to see what is going on ... the is where the paper could play a good role .... by reporting the whole story and not selecting what that particular journalist wants etc......NOT the papers job, its the clubs job to feed papers worthwhile stories to MAKE them publicise this, ie halftime heroes that rovers did for the last two weeks got coverge in the papers and the news websites.



*See .... my previous points disagree with this .... my point here is that i want to CONTEST the fact that "if they were so interesting they would be getting covered" .... i want to contest it because i think it is a flawed argument .... and because it is flawed ..... the league isn't getting the coverage it deserves. It is THAT argument that i dont agree with and the whole purpose of the thread.
....Chill pill, the clubs need to draw attention to stories, hacks are lazy, make it easy for them. All the other associations do it.

*My point is basically .... the media (to give it a name, i am generalising obviously) ... the media want their cake and eat it !!
....Yes, its called capitalism, get over it.

*The problem stems from here ..... the media ..... Dont report properly on the league. It is not balanced (objective opinion, i.e. It is one sided ... and thats alway the bad side) ....... it is not the full story, as regards covering all issues concerning the league (i.e. Not the full picture) ...... and .....
... not true.

*What i am saying is that, at times ... it is so far from the truth .... it doesn't bare thought !! Alarm bells, sirens ... whatever you need .... i am telling you there is a problem.... Not true.

*By you saying .... there is more negative ..... on news that hasn't happened yet !! .... there is a glaring error on your behalf ... no, i guarantee 80% of news that come s out of the league will be bad news.

*Are they the same guildlines that every other association are given ??

This league is implementing the licencing (granted you say there are problems and i agree, they need to be copperfastened) .... but do you think .... in your own opinion that .....
..... YES and it is the FAI's job to make them compatible with the law in this country so they can be implemented. They obviously have failed. Quel surprise.

*A. The FAI/the league deserve a break for being on of the first leagues to get this going, to not learn for others mistakes, to get stuck in and implement it.
.... its not very implemented, rovers are in examinership, in france or italy that woul mean relegation

*B. The system being implemented ..... again you say is flawed .... but the system and the end product ... every club in the league are looking at their situation and looking at a means to improve them ... with the licencing as a blue print.
.... not really, they are doing as little as possible of it so they can get thier hands on grant money.

Why do the irish media give scores for english league one, two & sometimes even scottish 1st division?

Do even a handful of readers have any interest at all?

:confused:

I have a strong interest in the Conference, so I'm sure others are interested in League One and Two.

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Originally Posted by EnDai

I have a strong interest in the Conference, so I'm sure others are interested in League One and Two.

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More than our own league? The point is it gets coverage despite the fact that surely only a very small minority could be interested in it, much smaller than would be interested in the EL.

I give up .... Green Force all i'll say is that if half the journalists in the country were like you, it would be a sorry sorry state.

I am not trying to insult you, but it is like talking to the wall. I really dont think it is worth the effort.

If there were a union for journalists, i dont think they'd be very happy with you .... you have made them out to be muck.

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Originally Posted by A face

If there were a union for journalists, i dont think they'd be very happy with you .... you have made them out to be muck.

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There is, its called the NUJ, and they defo wouldn't be too happy with you Green Force! you've pretty much managed to **** off every journo thats on these boards with your above comments

Yeah, but unless I issue a press release they'll be too lazy to do anything about it.

Here's the complete list of good sports journalists:

Gerry Thornley.
Paul Hyland.

As for the NUJ, pyssed off they may be but as long as Mick McCaffrey is a member and there's no PCC they can stay pyssed off.

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Originally Posted by aido_b

There is, its called the NUJ, and they defo wouldn't be too happy with you Green Force! you've pretty much managed to **** off every journo thats on these boards with your above comments

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I'm not backing what they're doing, I'm saying its reality and its in the club's and the FAIs power to do something about it.

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Originally Posted by Green Force

Yeah, but unless I issue a press release they'll be too lazy to do anything about it.

Here's the complete list of good sports journalists:

Gerry Thornley.
Paul Hyland.

As for the NUJ, pyssed off they may be but as long as Mick McCaffrey is a member and there's no PCC they can stay pyssed off.

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By no stretch of the imagination is Paul Hyland a good sports journalist. He has basically two themes which he regurgitates ad nauseum.

1. Man Utd. What Roy Keane("His Corkness" - sweet jesus), Alex Feguson and all are having for breakfast, what they should be having for breakfast, the implications for the Ireland team of what they're having for breakfast.

2. The FAI. They're rubbish (Hey, everyone has spotted that one) Wheeled out every time there is another bit of nonsense from the Merrion Square blazers. He also has a sideline in being the harbinger of doom every time an Irish club gets into trouble (The only interest he ever takes in the game here)

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Originally Posted by Green Force

Here's the complete list of good sports journalists:

Gerry Thornley.
Paul Hyland.

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Jebus Gerry Thornley / Paul Hyland will love you ... singing prasies like that. You'll definitely be an addition to one christmas card list .... fair play to you, that is just so damned nice of you. He will really appreciate it reckon !!

they'll be cutting and pasting your contribution fairly shortly too!

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Originally Posted by Green Force

Here's the complete list of good sports journalists:

Gerry Thornley.
Paul Hyland.

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that just shows how much you actually read sport everyday. Wheres Aidan Fitzmaurice, Neil O Riordan or Stephen Finn.