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Cork is known as "The Rebel County" due to its history of involvement in the fight for home rule, both in the original struggles in the late 18th Century and then in winning Irish independence in the beginning of the 20th Century. Michael Collins, a key figure in the War of Independence, was born and then assassinated in West Cork.
Goes back a lot earlier than that...and its not the type of Rebel you're thinking of...Quote:
Originally Posted by JDB
Indeed - I stand corrected - 1499 I believe. In any case I don't think even Pat Dolan can claim credit for inventing the term:
"In the aftermath of the Wars of the Roses, Yorkist pretenders to the English crown (worn victoriously by the Lancastrian Henry Tudor, Henry VII since 1485) won support in various parts of Ireland, with one interesting and curious consequence for Cork. Waterford resisted both Lambert Simnel (1488) and Perkin Warbeck (1491) and for its loyalty was dubbed the urbs intacta, the untouched city. Cork however took a different line and earned a quite different, and eventually a more famous, sobriquet. Warbeck was supported by Mayor John Water and the citizens. A price was paid in the temporary forfeiture of its charter and the execution of Water, along with Warbeck himself, in London in 1499. And so the famous description, 'rebel Cork', was originally applied by the crown as a derogatory designation but seems to have been adopted by the citizens as a badge of pride. It was in popular use long before it took on connotations of republican resistance to British rule early in the twentieth century. The term was further strengthened by Cork's rearguard resistance to the new Irish Free State in 1922. Today, the slogan 'up the Rebels' is most commonly and loudly vociferated by Cork's GAA followers : most of them are blissfully unaware of its fifteenth-century English royalist origins!"
I don't know how you figure that thecorner. As far as I know, Lennox came up with the name. My point was that I doubt Dolan would mind if the chant was changed. Simple point really.Quote:
Originally Posted by thecorner
adam - I certainly don't want to p*** you or anyone else off but my reading of thecorner's post is that while it might be keeping an argument going that the rest of us might like to move on from, it certainly isn't offensive - well Eanna just chose to answer it rather than get offended by it - so to threaten to ban thecorner from the forum, well that's a bit harsh in my humble opinion! Agree to differ and all that, surely a more appropriate approach than censoring someone's point of view if it differs from yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
The thing he was saying was that corner knew full well that eanna wasn't actually saying that. but i agree, a ban would be harsh.
Perhaps I should have been clearer: I'm pretty certain that the Rebel Army tag and logo predates the "Pat Dolan's Rebel Army" chant. The chant came about because of the brand. If I'm wrong, feel free to post the facts, but one fact will remain whether or which: The suggestion that the brand and/or chant should be dropped because Dolan is gone is absolutely ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm
adam
whomever it was who came up with 'rebel army', it was hardly the most original idea in the world. retiring it in anybody's honour is just nonsense. fans sing it in england all the time, with the manager's name changed according to who's in or out. the king is dead, long live the king....
Myabe I'm way off but I'm sure I heard it more than once during Dave Barry's time, as an alternative to
'Davey Barry's Barmy Army'
which just made everyone sound like cockneys, guv'nor :rolleyes:
Could be wrong though.
I don't see any problem singing Rich-ard-son's Rebel Army, ffs, that's what we'll be anyway.
TBH I always thought "Pat Dolan's Rebel Army" sounded a bit stupid, like the long, drawn-out chant of a sit-in organiser with an imagination deficiency. I reckon "Rich-ard-son's Rebel Army" will sound equally ridiculous. What's wrong with the short and snappy "Ri-co's Rebel Army"? Not that I'll hear it much, but still...
adam
not sure what the musical term is (maybe someone with that knowledge could volunteer it), but im sure theres something about balancing in the sylabyls. "ri-cos" (2) doesnt balance with "reb-el arm-ee" (4), and thats why "ri-char-dso-ons [the ons being extended]" (4) is easier to say and easier on the ear.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
either way its hardly ground breaking original stuff.