The 'Kenny Shiels is quite the interesting character' thread.

Don't get me wrong I wasn't necessarily having a go at Kenny, personally I prefer youth development as there's something special about seeing a kid go from in goal for a half time penalty shootout to saving a penalty against the league champions but I can also appreciate and admire the skill of taking players not wanted by the other top clubs and turning them into world beaters, just pointing out that while he has been successful at developing players they haven't been youth players as per Shiels' comments so that's a key point in the who's the best at youth development conversation.

It must be still difficult for Shamrock Rovers fans to see what has happened with the massive success Kenny had had at Dundalk when you think of what could have been.
I wonder why he got it so badly wrong there or were there factors beyond his control that led to his poor record?

At the time it was said that players wouldnt buy in to his expectations on strength and conditioning in particular. After 2 league titles players felt it wasnt broke so why fix it. Did the locking Kenny out of the changing room by the players at ht really happen?

He bought Kerra Gilbert, that in itself is a sackable offence. Being honest you do think what could have been but you can do that for anything, what if MON had stayed if the question I ask more, and you also think well would we have the training ground and academy, would we have seen the likes of Bazunu come through so there's pros and cons really.

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

Don't get me wrong I wasn't necessarily having a go at Kenny, personally I prefer youth development as there's something special about seeing a kid go from in goal for a half time penalty shootout to saving a penalty against the league champions but I can also appreciate and admire the skill of taking players not wanted by the other top clubs and turning them into world beaters, just pointing out that while he has been successful at developing players they haven't been youth players as per Shiels' comments so that's a key point in the who's the best at youth development conversation.

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Maybe Dundalk are more interested in winning titles than flogging one 16 year old for big money.
Youth development is the current ‘nirvana ‘ (or excuse) for some. Ironically it differs little from the schoolboy factories of older days (Kevin’s Home Farm, Joeys etc)
Kenny is a better manager than Shiels by any rational criteria and their respective records prove that. Keith Long among others has developed far more young players than Shiels but I doubt many would suggest he is a better manager than Kenny (yet 😁)

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

Maybe Dundalk are more interested in winning titles than flogging one 16 year old for big money.
Youth development is the current ‘nirvana ‘ (or excuse) for some. Ironically it differs little from the schoolboy factories of older days (Kevin’s Home Farm, Joeys etc)
Kenny is a better manager than Shiels by any rational criteria and their respective records prove that. Keith Long among others has developed far more young players than Shiels but I doubt many would suggest he is a better manager than Kenny (yet 😁)

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Of course winning trophies is preferable, if you read what I said all I said was when it comes to players being developed at clubs I prefer to see the kid who's supported the club and been in the youth team for years come good than the journey man go from 3rd choice at a similar level club to a world beater.

It's not the "current nirvana" for some it's just something that every club that wants to progress and be sustainable needs think Busby babes, 60's Celtic, 70's Ajax, class of 92, Barcelona's circa 2011 teams and it's where Irish clubs have failed in the past so yes fans who can see their club trying to do something exciting that other clubs haven't tried in Ireland before get some pleasure from it.

It also differs hugely from the schoolboy factories in that players are being developed for the first team and not explicitly to be sold on. They are though like any other player in that if a "too good to turn down" offer comes in they'll be sold. The sale of Bazunu is no different to that of Burke, both were bought in to play for the first team not to make a quick buck.

Yes he is a better manager but that's not what was said, it was about youth development and you've confused that with management in general and development of non youth players.

Derry City have an outstanding record of developing young players over the last 10-15 years.

Shamrock Rovers have shown strong potential in the same area over the last 10-15 months.

Neither Kenny Shield nor Stephen Bradley are exclusively responsible

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Neither Kenny Shield nor Stephen Bradley are exclusively responsible

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.....or, arguably, deserve much of the credit.

It could be reasonably claimed that both have actually failed miserably in their primary role with the respective first teams

Did you actually just make a comment to bring up a certain manager so that you could then reply to said comment to have a dig at that manager? What a sad sad life you must have.

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Originally Posted by dong

It must be still difficult for Shamrock Rovers fans to see what has happened with the massive success Kenny had had at Dundalk when you think of what could have been.

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I think that’s a fair observation / thought. I was thinking on any other examples of managers winning trophies at different clubs and there is a fair few in the modern times like Fenlon (Shels and Bohs) and McLaughlin (Dundalk, Rovers, Derry, Shels). However these were all examples of winning at previous club and repeating at new club.

I remember too well the shock when McLaughlin left Dundalk in 83 after winning 3 leagues and 3 cups to win a league straight away at Rovers in 84 then a double in 85, or maybe that was Keely’s first year. Keely also retuned to Dundalk to win a league in 95.

The move by Kenny being sacked by Rovers then moving to Dundalk the following year and currently on 4 titles, while in the same period Rovers only winning one trophy (League cup ?), that has to play on the mind of a lot of a Rovers fans.

Can anyone remember how far Rovers were behind in the league when they sacked him around Aug/Sept in 2012, was it def out of the question they would not retain the league?

Think it was about 13 points off sligo. He was sacked on the 11th of September and his last home league win was on the 18th of May.

The idea that if Kenny had stuck around at rovers success would follow is rubbish. Kenny has been successful and unsuccessful at different clubs. The current hero worship at dundalk is completely understandable. It will be interesting to see what happens when he leaves. Strong rumour that he is looking for a way out right now. If he leaves either now or later given his record with dundalk he may return in the future , will he be successful again? Who knows , luck with players hitting form and timing plays a part.
Dunfirmiline and rovers fans don't agree with dundalk fans but that's the way it goes. At the moment Kenny can do no wrong , that's just the way it is

That is just the way it goes, it didn’t work out for him at Rovers, I’ve no problems with that. He won’t be with Dundalk forever either, that’s obvious but he is contracted to end of 2020.

I think Kenny Sheils is walking a plank at Derry. The chairman calling him out on recruitment recently was bizarre and I think some of the statements he has made of late have been in a self justifying and defensive nature. I will be surprised if he is still there next season........st pats ?

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

It will be interesting to see what happens when he leaves. Strong rumour that he is looking for a way out right now.

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Strong rumour, really? This is the first I've heard of it. No talk amongst Dundalk fans, doesn't sound very strong

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

Did you actually just make a comment to bring up a certain manager so that you could then reply to said comment to have a dig at that manager?

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No, I just don't trust the mobile edit feature - safer to add an additional comment.

But feel free to comment, if you disagree with what I said in either post

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

What a sad sad life you must have.

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Live is full of joy at the moment, and looking forward to Friday night's trophy presentation

Yeah I remember the night we won our 13th title, it was joyful alright , enjoy.

Just curious on that 13th title for Rovers, doing a mental tie back here, if you are on 17 now, was that one the last of the 4-in-a-row? back in 1987?

No the year before. Galway were second , u boys 3rd.
One of the great things about the 1899 suite/bar in Tallaght is the club get the likes of pat Byrne, Noel Larkin etc to come in and present jerseys player awards or just to talk regular enough. Every club should do that (I'm sure most do) the opportunity to meet your hero's from years ago is great. Without exception they have been fantastic speakers

Think Stephen Kenny would be mad to leave dundalk. He has a job for life there and has proven successful. I feel if he went anywhere else he would die on his ar$e, to be honest.
I heard talk of him for the Ireland job- I think the championship/lower division dog$hit players we currently have wearing the green shirt would laugh his methods out the door- it would say as much about them as him, in my view.

I can assure one and all that Rovers fans do not pine for the one that got away in Kenny, but the last proper manager we had (MON) and how he's continued his success with norn iron.