Champions League last 16

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

My original point is that Arsenal are the biggest under achievers in Europe. With their resources and the abilty at the club and the form they show in Europe. IN addition you have to take into account to such claims as "Greatest Team Ever" which were made by fans of the club last year and lots of lazy journalists.

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Agree with most you have said there. Disagree that Arsenal are the biggest under achievers in europe. Sure they haven't been hugely successful in the european cup but while we talk about european history of other clubs we shouldn't forget 3 european final appearances in the 1990's (more than any other UK club in that decade) - two consequtive cup winners finals and a uefa cup final.

You have mentioned resources and abilitys but have neglected to mention financial spend which when compared to some of europe's other yearly bridesmaids in recent champion league campaigns is pittance. I'm thinking of the last five years of so and the likes of Inter Milan, Juventus, Barcelona, Manchester United who have spent 4 or 5 times the amount of clubs like Arsenal and not won the major prize but have gone further - if you take everything else into consideration you must take that the money aspect also.

In relation to the fans, well no matter what club you support you'll get muppets saying stuff like the greatest team ever etc and likewise you'll get opposition saying it meant nothing etc when no one else has mangaged to do it post war. It's the nature of fans of every club not just Arsenal fans.

What I do hate however is the way the media have twisted the words of Arsene Wenger to make headlines. Two examples spring to mind

1. 'I think we could go go the whole season unbeaten' which quickly became 'we will go the whole season unbeaten' in the gutter press and with Richard Keys (of course he was right! Arsene Knows! :D )

2. 'This is the greatest ARSENAL team ever' which became 'this is the greatest team ever' convienently dropping the Arsenal from the line.

It happens all the time in the press it's just annoying when people don't take the time to read the exact quotes. It's pure here'say! (jeez they were a rubbish band - although that Mylenne one would get it! :D )

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Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

we shouldn't forget 3 european final appearances in the 1990's (more than any other UK club in that decade) - two consequtive cup winners finals and a uefa cup final.

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Are you sure about that 90's stat? ;)

Bayerns first goal was a route one ball which lead to a defensive mistake. Wenger match tactics can't be blamed for this. The second Bayern goal was a set piece, Toure again asleep and his bad marking led to the goal. Again Wengers match tactics can't be critisied here. The third goal was again poor defending from all the defense as a whole but at this point the team were clearly demoralised. Bayern created very litte infact I struggle to remember any clear chances they had except for Frings (?) miss. Arsenal played the better football IMO but struggled to break a very defensive Bayern down. Let me ask Wenger critics why was Ze Reberto taken off early? Was it because he was so ineffective or effective? In reality they cancelled each other out, but some sloppy play and individual errors cost them - not tactical ineptatude.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Are you sure about that 90's stat? ;)

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From memory - could be wrong

United - Cup Winners Cup final, European Cup final

Chelsea - Cup Winners Cup final

Arsenal - Uefa Cup final, 2 Cup Winners Cup finals

:)

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Originally Posted by Coltron

Arsenal played the better football IMO but struggled to break a very defensive Bayern down. .

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agree with all you said here. I did think Arsenal had a lot of the ball and kept it well for an away game in europe but never really worked it into area's that could hurt Bayern. Bayern's tactics were greatly helped by the early goal which meant they could sit off in blocks of four and it must be said, they were absolutely clinical in their finishing for the goals (apart from Frings - thank god!). Goals definetly change game and you can think back to the Reyes chance directly after halftime when it was 1-0, when he should have squared it and had it gone in Arsenal could have could better, instead they conceded and the heads dropped. Such is football.

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Originally Posted by GK for the Town

I didnt think they were outclassed at all. They scored from one howler from Carroll (keepers are having a nitemare lately). & I cant remember any guilt edge chances that they missed.

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Crespo missed a sitter just before he scored, when he lost his balance. Kaka should have made it 2-0 but shot wide. Seedorf hit the bar in the first half. Utd's only real chance IMO was Fortunes miss. Ye were outclassed, ye hardly had the ball, only Utd fans would say ye weren't. The fact that their goal came from a howler doesn't mean anything, considering they dominated.

At 1-0, the tie is of course still open, but i'm sticking to my prediction of Milan going through, simply because they are better.

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Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

Arsenal - Uefa Cup final, 2 Cup Winners Cup finals

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Was the UEFA Cup Final not in 2000?

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Originally Posted by Macy

Was the UEFA Cup Final not in 2000?

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yep just googled it - 1999/2000 season which mean the final was May 2000. I stand corrected. :o

By the way I had a bet that all English sides would go out, I am pretty confident that it will happen. English sides do not know how to keep the ball properly. Retention of possession is brutal in every English team when they get in Europe and it will be funny if they all go out.


Another part of me would like to see Irish players go far in Europe though.

I backed Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal to qualify for the next round along with Lyon and Inter but I think I've lost this bet. Individual errors cost me, Toure, Drogba/Ref and Carroll I don't care what Ferguson says. Didn't think that Barca would be able to break down Chelsea if they took the lead as they have struggled to break down lesser sides in La Liga and the CL this year. Milan really upped their game for the big matches, I watched them lately and they have been pretty average, I think Utd will score in Italy, not sure if that will be enough though. Arsenal where/are my tip for the CL and altough its looking dodgy I stand by it. Just because they didnt do it doesnt mean they couldn't ala, unbeaton season. They were told it couldnt be done too and look what happened... egg...face.

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Originally Posted by Roo69

Madrid v Juve Winner: Madrid
Porto v Inter Winner: Inter
Barca v Chelsea Winner: Barca
Bremen v Lyon Winner: Bremen
Liverpool v Leverkusen Winner: Leverkusen
PSV v Monaco Winner: PSV
Man United v Milan Winner: Man United
Bayern v Arsenal Winner: Arsenal

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Enuf said!!!!!

Pretty impressive! Oh for reverse accumulators! :p

Thats a candidate for Foot.ie Post Of The Year!!!

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Originally Posted by Gary

Thats a candidate for Foot.ie Post Of The Year!!!

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Jesus ! How wrong could i be !!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :D

Im tempted to put a tenner on Porto to beat inter now.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Im tempted to put a tenner on Porto to beat inter now.

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Tempted, put your house on it :D

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Originally Posted by Roo69

Madrid v Juve Winner: Madrid
Porto v Inter Winner: Inter
Barca v Chelsea Winner: Barca
Bremen v Lyon Winner: Bremen
Liverpool v Leverkusen Winner: Leverkusen
PSV v Monaco Winner: PSV
Man United v Milan Winner: Man United
Bayern v Arsenal Winner: Arsenal

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Our very own mystic meg :D

did anyone get them all right? If porto win next week i will have got them all bar the monaco result :eek:

Jebus thats even bad by my prediction standards.

:eek: :D

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Originally Posted by jockser

did anyone get them all right? If porto win next week i will have got them all bar the monaco result :eek:

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Didn't get them all but when Inter knock out Porto I will have got 7 of the eight, Messed up with Werder; I was convinced they would knock out Lyon. Was slightly wrong there.