Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we were to amalgamate wouldn't we also get an amalgamation of co efficients, which would mean that we would get a slight boost from that, we would rise about five or six places in the co efficients table.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
That can only be a good thing.
I'll have to correct you. Its only an average. As NI has a worse average than us the new average would be less than our present one. It would be the average of the two averages which is worse than our average but better than NI's average. So ROI clubs would be worse off but NI clubs would be better off. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Breifne
Except for Shels and Bohs who beacus of their performances in Europe have established their own club co-efficients.
Besides according to the current plan only 16 teams would get to compete for Europe anyway (with the exception of the proposed National cup I presume) so it's only a handful more teams fighting for places.
At the moment there's no provision for a First Division so nobody has to worry about the other 34 clubs who are gonna get kicked out of senior football threatening to steal any precious European spots.
Forgot that it was an average, so yeah, bit of a bummer there.Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
Come on SLK, there isn't a country in Europe that gives Euro slots to teams from lower divisions, unless they win the Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
I think an All-Ireland league would be superb. I think it should be 3 tires in it eg, LOI 1st div teams go into Div 1 A and Irish league 1st div teamsgo int Div 1 B and the top 2 from both sections go into the Samis and the 2 teams that reach the final will be promated into he Prem or else do it as 4 go up and 4 go down. What do ye think?
No, I know that, I'm not so big a whinger that I've a problem with that! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by patsh
It's just that as far as I can tell there isn't any provision for lower leagues in the idea currently being floated. This annoys me. And worries me.
I wouldn't worry SLK. I'm in danger oif sounding like David Brent, but I think it's currently just a case of "sell the sizzle, not the sausage" here....! Remember - this is one unofficial interview with one person about a huge concept. Of course there'd need to be feeder divisions into an AIL prem - otherwise the whole concept would just die in a matter of seasons. But at the moment, it's the 'big picture' that will sell the idea - journos don't really want to hear about the technicalities of it all, particularly at this stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
Have faith.... :)
I see you've conveniently ignored my perfectly good and accurate maths earlier on this thread which prove that teams would have less of a chance of qualifying for Europe. European slots are an issue - how could they not be?!Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Obviously it would be harder to qualify for europe but hopefully this should be outweighed by other factors such as increased attendances and (most importantly of all) a substantial TV deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
This will only happen if decent TV money is available, otherwise clubs won't take the risk.
Tell dcfcsteve and his flawed maths that! :rolleyes: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by paudie
The EL currently has 4 Euro slots. The IL currently has 4 Euro slots. If we combined both, our co-efficient might go down, but each team would still be playing for, wait for it..., 4 SLOTS !Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
We would probably be lower seeded, but we'd still have a total of 4 slots ! Therefore, our opportunities of GETTING INTO Europe would be exactly the same, it just might be tougher for a few seasons initially when we got there. You could even argue that Euro ventures would be easier to some degree for EL clubs, as the southern teams would be initially playing with a co-efficient that under-rated them ! And with Bohs and Shels on good personal seedings, not all EL clubs would be affected anyway.
Studying Maths by any chance Pineapple.... :O)
[QUOTE=paudie]Obviously it would be harder to qualify for europe
How would an all-island league make it uniquely harder to qualify for Europe in a way that increasing the size of the premier division by 20% next season doesn't ? Or in a way that expanding the LOI in 1985 didn't ?
Both those above activities make it harder for any EL team to qualify for Europe, by increasing the number of competitors for the slots available. Yet Euro slots are only ever bemoaned as a negative issue when it's in the context of an all-island league. Why ???
[QUOTE=dcfcsteve]Because the teams coming into the premier in those instances were/are not going to be competing for the top three spots. If the NI teams are good enough to challenge Shels etc., the ROI teams will be less likely to get into Europe, if the NI teams can't compete, it'll be less likely they'll get into Europe, therefore bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by paudie
I can't believe how parochially minded everyone is being about this. So the teams in the 1985 expansion of the LOI were never going to compete for Euro slots ? Why did you ever let Derry City into your precious little league then - sure we've had the cheek to deny you all of silverware on 10 occasions, and European entry 7 times. Bray and Longford were also new teams introduced in the 1985 expansion - rack up another 6 trophies, and 3 European outings denied to you all. Shocking really what can happen when you open your doors! Best not make that mistake again......Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelsTim
This discussion is now descending into farce. At best 2-4 IL teams will be realistically competing for Europe in the medium term, and probably only 1 from the off, so it's not as if the mongol hordes will be charging south of the border to seize our precious Euro slots. Yes - you could therefore argue that that is bad for IL clubs. However, raising the standard would be to their benefit beyond the short-term, and regardless - they could just as easily be denied Euro slots by new comers within their own league (Institute, Donegal Celtic) as by increased competition within an AIL.
If conjecture regarding the degree of competition for European slots is the best anyone has to say against an all-island league, then they've clearly lost the arguement already.
This is really getting into small-minded 'me fein' ism. Feck what's best for football in Ireland......
I agree, sure we may aswell make it a four team league and everyone gets into europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Increased competition for European spaces is a good thing and can only raise the standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
I agree. If you want football to progress on this island then you need an all-ireland league with proper promotion and relegation so every team is included.
But we have combined two leagues, so you'd have more teams competing for those four slots! Therefore your odds would be reduced, as per my earlier post - QED!Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
At the moment you have, say, Shels, Longford, Bohs, Cork, Linfield, Glentoran, Ports and AN Other getting into Europe from x number of teams. In a unified league you'd have only half those teams getting into Europe from the same number of teams! It's that simple! Look back at my earlier post and see how simple! Fortunately, most people here seem to agree with me. So I'm not going to repeat myself for the minority who have rather poor maths. Basically, though, odds aren't that simple that you get to average them out to get new odds - if they were, then betting on two 2-1 outcomes (results, say) would leave you with odds of 2-1! Which is plainly nonsense!
the maths is correct that the total number of teams playing in europe would go down from 8 to 4. thats fine
and if people are really attached to seeing their 4 republic of ireland teams and 4 northern ireland teams in europe every year then fine too
and its true that in an all ireland league theres a chance that all 4 teams representing ireland could be from the north
but my opinion is, so what?
ireland as 1 country would only deserve 4 teams in europe. so right now, we have 8
im all for it, sign me up dcfc
And I'll repeat myself one last time. There's been a number of changes within the Eircom League/League of Ireland that have likewise increased the level of competition for Euro slots - e.g. a 20% increase in the size of the premier next season, the 1985 expansion of the league etc. Not once did anyone bemoan the impact of those events upon the maths of European qualification. Yet when it's an all-Ireland league we're talking about, suddenly it becomes an issue and everyone's reaching for their abacus's. Why ?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu