All-Ireland representative team survey

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20/06/2011, 12:49 PM
Wolfie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gather round

c) many of the dimmer ones seem to associate wth the merging of two mdiocre teams and a massively better one automatically emerging

Depends on your definition and parameters of "mediocre". Didn't one of these mediocre teams recently hammer the other mediocre team 5 nil????

On a more serious note, there's far too much animosity to remotely entertain a unified team.

A unified team would have to be a natural reflection of closer Social and Political relations that have yet to happen. For instance, the unification of the German football team was a natural reflection of the political reunification of the country.

We're miles from that yet.
20/06/2011, 12:53 PM
Gather round

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fixer82

I'm not talking about anything being imposed on anyone

The one thing that all NI fans will agree on is that they don't want the NI team to cese to exist. If you recognise that, you're on a wind-up; we are quite sensible in wanting to keep our team.

If you don't recognise it, you're deluding yourself.
20/06/2011, 12:56 PM
The Fly

Never the twain shall meet lads!
20/06/2011, 12:56 PM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gather round

The one thing that all NI fans will agree on is that they don't want the NI team to cese to exist. If you recognise that, you're on a wind-up; we are quite sensible in wanting to keep our team.

If you don't recognise it, you're deluding yourself.

"All" NI fans?
20/06/2011, 12:57 PM
Gather round

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Depends on your definition and parameters of "mediocre". Didn't one of these mediocre teams recently hammer the other mediocre team 5 nil????

Now now. Actually I defined it above- both are third ranked/rated by UEFA.

Quote:

On a more serious note, there's far too much animosity to remotely entertain a unified team

Indeed. It's about as likely as Croatia and Serbia doing so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFK

"All" NI fans?

By definition, NI fans (that's fans of the NI team, just to be clear) want there to be a NI team. If they want to throw it in with Trap or Seb Coe, fair enough, bye bye. They aren't NI team fans any more.
20/06/2011, 12:58 PM
Fixer82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Depends on your definition and parameters of "mediocre". Didn't one of these mediocre teams recently hammer the other mediocre team 5 nil????

On a more serious note, there's far too much animosity to remotely entertain a unified team.

A unified team would have to be a natural reflection of closer Social and Political relations that have yet to happen. For instance, the unification of the German football team was a natural reflection of the political reunification of the country.

We're miles from that yet.

Yep I must agree.
It will happen naturally over the course of time.
Not for a while though.
If someone had mentioned getting rid of the border 20 years ago they would have been laughed at
20/06/2011, 1:03 PM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gather round

By definition, NI fans (that's fans of the NI team, just to be clear) want there to be a NI team. If they want to throw it in with Trap or Seb Coe, fair enough, bye bye. They aren't NI team fans any more.

Including the sentiments of past and present players?
20/06/2011, 1:08 PM
Gather round

Of course, as I've said here many times. If they think there shouldn't be an NI team, who cares how many European Cup medals they have?
20/06/2011, 1:26 PM
ArdeeBhoy

Who has European Cup medals??
20/06/2011, 1:32 PM
Lionel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fixer82

I'm not talking about anything being imposed on anyone.
If the people and the associations don't want it to happen it won't happen.
If they come to their senses and decide to unite then it will happen.
Nothing will be forced on anyone.
It would hardly make for a healthy association if it were to be operating under force.

Okay Fixer -let's just say hypothetically that the associations decided to merge (they're the least likely source of impetus for a merger IMO as it's the "turkeys voting for christmas scenario") What happens thereafter? ...again hypothetically? Here's a scenario.

A super-majority of Ireland supporters would be in favour and would go along with the merger as they may think little will change materially. we'll still play in green and the team'll still be called Ireland*. But in all likelihood the only tricolours involved would be the ones supporters bring -though they may have to be confiscated eventually too as they're seen as a source of hassle in the stands ...and soldiers song'd be gone too of course.

Meanwhile 99% of NI support would boycott the new team -this despite the fact that somehow it's been agreed that 50% of home games will be played in Belfast (try getting the FAI to sign up to THAT with the bill for LR hanging round their necks). But they're not going to just boycott it and not attend football anymore -they'd likely amass a large enough body of support to form a new football association -maybe the Northern Irish Football Association (NIFA) or better again the Football Association of Northern Ireland (FANI). They'd then seek FIFA recognition and could end up getting it after a year or two playing challenge matches against Isle of Man, Greenland, etc. That leaves us back where we started -except half our home games are now played in Belfast.

*nomenclature might not be as straightforward as just calling it Ireland. With Delaneys knack for not missing a trick I could envisage it being called something like Aviva Presents TEAM IRELAND.

Look we have our all-Ireland team. The situation we have at present is imperfect but as likely as not as good a result for all concerned as can be expected.
20/06/2011, 1:34 PM
The Fly

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Who has European Cup medals??

George Best and Martin O'Neill won European Cup medals, and they are the only 'Northern Irish' players to do so.
20/06/2011, 1:37 PM
ArdeeBhoy

Aye, but George is dead.
Though credit to him for being more enlightened and less paranoid than others from his community.
20/06/2011, 1:49 PM
The Fly

Just by way of contrast, we have had ten such winners:

John O'Shea, Steve Finnan, Denis Irwin, Roy Keane, Mark Lawrenson, Shay Brennan, Tony Dunne, Michael Robinson, Ronnie Whelan, and two for Steve Heighway.
20/06/2011, 2:00 PM
Sullivinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metrostars

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

No. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see the likes of Gibson playing for us. I know about the GF agreement etc but I agree with the Norners somewhat who say it is a jurisdiction issue not necessarily a political issue.

Discomfort, Really? Personally, I see the fact that Gibson and co. don't have to dilute their nationality and settle for the representative XI of the gerrymandered jurisdiction they were born in as a cause for celebration. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see 'the likes' of Niall McGinn applying the panacea of a bowed head when required to observe an ode to his own misrepresentation when that iceberg dirges forth, Union Jack flying proudly from it's tip.

The suggestion that jurisdiction supercedes politics is the kind of convenience that sees the individual motivations of the players disregarded in many of the pieces written on the issue, clearing a path for words such as 'poached'. Whenever their motives are given print or recognition, words such as 'honor' and 'country' come to the fore rather than the jurisdictionally-compliant blubs of freshly abducted salmon.
20/06/2011, 2:03 PM
Gather round

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

The situation we have at present is imperfect but as likely as not as good a result for all concerned as can be expected

Good post Lionel, I liked the bit about FANI-ing about.
20/06/2011, 2:06 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fly

Just by way of contrast, we have had ten such winners:

John O'Shea, Steve Finnan, Denis Irwin, Roy Keane, Mark Lawrenson, Shay Brennan, Tony Dunne, Michael Robinson, Ronnie Whelan, and two for Steve Heighway.

Just out of interest, did Darren Potter get one in 2005? He was in the winning squad photos afterwards. I suspect not.

We may have been able to add Sheedy, Alridge, Staunton and Houghton to that list. In my opinion the English ban cost Everton a great chance of winning it, and it's hard to think Liverpool wouldn't have had a good stab at it again.
20/06/2011, 2:06 PM
IsMiseSean

i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
Yes

ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
Sadly no.

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
Yes.

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?
Very Slightly
20/06/2011, 2:15 PM
Sullivinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Look we have our all-Ireland team. The situation we have at present is imperfect but as likely as not as good a result for all concerned as can be expected.

Couldn't agree more. Well said.
20/06/2011, 2:16 PM
The Fly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Just out of interest, did Darren Potter get one in 2005? He was in the winning squad photos afterwards. I suspect not.

Your suspicion is correct.

Quote:

We may have been able to add Sheedy, Alridge, Staunton and Houghton to that list. In my opinion the English ban cost Everton a great chance of winning it, and it's hard to think Liverpool wouldn't have had a good stab at it again.

Agreed.
20/06/2011, 2:18 PM
The Fly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sullivinho

Discomfort, Really? Personally, I see the fact that Gibson and co. don't have to dilute their nationality and settle for the representative XI of the gerrymandered jurisdiction they were born in as a cause for celebration. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see 'the likes' of Niall McGinn applying the panacea of a bowed head when required to observe an ode to his own misrepresentation when that iceberg dirges forth, Union Jack flying proudly from it's tip.

The suggestion that jurisdiction supercedes politics is the kind of convenience that sees the individual motivations of the players disregarded in many of the pieces written on the issue, clearing a path for words such as 'poached'. Whenever their motives are given print or recognition, words such as 'honor' and 'country' come to the fore rather than the jurisdictionally-compliant blubs of freshly abducted salmon.

Good post Sullivinho.

Your eloquent use of imagery successfully conveyed the central pertinent points; I especially enjoyed the poached salmon reference, and the iceberg metaphor.

I was tempted to deduct a mark for the mispelling of 'honour', but.......I let that pass. ;)

10/10.

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