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This isn't strictly true. Provided the debts were taken on in good conscience, Bohs are fully entitled to restructure their debts and negotiate with creditors like Jicked said. They can even offer equity in the club's assets as part of the deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
You say Dalymount is the reason Bohs can't stiff their creditors, but in reality it's the only reason they don't have to.
Or more correctly its the reason why creditors won't accept the 4% figure that Rovers paid, or the 15% Cork paid.
Same outcome, yeah. It's all a moot point unless Bohs are actually forced to default though.
Actually we renegotiated the contracts (by way of severance) technically we did not owe them anything for next season as they had not yet fulfilled their contractural obligations and when was it suggested they would get "nothing" if they didnt accept ? Think you are mixing up shams 05 with Bohs situation which are toally different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
Glad you think shams are "well run" despite racking up considerable defiit with no assets, sounds like assured business plan to me :o
we have another thread for Bohs financial turmoil.
This one is for Bohs managerial turmoil.
Thanks.
And the weekend latest threads for Bohs' on-the-pitch turmoil:cute:Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
exactly. Its never boring! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dfx-
Something is puzzling me about this thread.
Shamrock Rovers supporters, while putting the boot in to Bohs, are seemingly gloating at the fact that they were cute enough in 2005 to welsh on their debts. And don’t try to convince the rest of us that paying 4% isn’t welshing.
In the light of this recent record they are asking (demanding of) the rest of us to accept their bona fides as ‘a well run club’.
I’m not aware that Bohemians had welshed on their debts. Have I missed something. Or is this just a new version of the old fashioned and well-established Rovers arrogance.
Be assured of this…no LOI club has a monopoly on stupidity.
I don't know what "welshing" means, but Bohs weren't in a position to pay their players what they had agreed to. I've no idea if that's "welshing" or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by orielabu
No-one is demanding anything of what you believe, if you want to think we're a badly run club because you don't like it us I'm sure most of us will cope.
It wasn't being cute re: examinership, it's a legal process designed for just that type of sitaution, and with the consent of creditors. To learn more about the process, see today's Irish Times which in an article on examinership itself, conveniently had this to say:
"Among the most successful outcomes from an examinership process is the case of football club Shamrock Rovers. When it entered examinership in 2005 the club had debts of €2m and had been relegated to the second division. Taken out of examinership by a group of several hundred supporters, it was remodelled as a member-run club and has enjoyed success both on and off the field since. It moved to the new purpose-built Tallaght Stadium in 2009 and won the Premier Division title last year."
Hope this helps:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/welshingQuote:
Definition of WELSH
intransitive verb
1
sometimes offensive : to avoid payment —used with on
2
sometimes offensive : to break one's word : renege
— welsh·er noun, sometimes offensive
just to further show how successful this process was, Shamrock Rovers paid approximately €80,000 of the total debt of €2m. Great success.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/b...five_40034.jpg
Yes. Again, the process is called examinership and is open to every business to consider, and was done with the agreement of the creditors. It is a great success as without examinership creditors would receive nothing instead of their 80,000 in this example, and then there is the numerous businesses that make money from the company in the future being kept on as a going concern as opposed to being wound up.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Also, it happened six or so years ago now for what it's worth, you'd have thought your disappointment that Rovers weren't put out of business would have eased somewhat.
I never wanted Rovers out of business Jicked. I value our rivalry too much. This doesnt mean i don't like to raise the 4% thing every once in a while. :)
It is also worth noting that the process called 'examinership' is almost exclusive to Ireland, and it is commonly known in most other countries as (going into) 'receivership'
80k was some result I can tell you.
While we have moved off topic slightly i have a question.Bohemian F.C itself is a limited company.What Company runs SRFC now and is it the same company that shafted the creditors under maguire and co or was a new company formed in 2005 post examinership.Genuine question.Any rovers fans clued in/brave enough to answer.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashbournebohs
Same company. The whole point of examinership is that the company continues trading.
While we're on the subject, not many people seem to realise that going down the examinership road actually ended up costing us more than going bust and starting from scratch like Derry and Cork have done since. The 400 club spent the guts of a million funding the club during examinership, the legal costs of the process and paying off the 4% of debt the courts agreed. We ended up getting relegated anyway and played in the first division in 2006. In hindsight the 400 club could have let the club fold in 2005, start up a new holding company and apply for a 1st division licence in 2006 with a substantial six figure sum still in the bank.
Fair play i have alot of respect for what your fans did to keep your club alive(together with a large slice of good fortune).That respect was eroded slightly by alot of your fans arrogance twards the clubs that put you up in their grounds despite protestations from fans and locals(money talks)and helped keep your show on the road.At the very least when you got things sorted a small thank you through the media towards ourselves shelbourne st pats ucd cork etc for the help and some gratious acceptance of that fact wouldnt have been a lot to ask for.Anyhoo it doesnt change much still hate ye!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HulaHoop
They are two different processes, since the 1990 Companies Act we've had both receivership and examinership in IrelandQuote:
Originally Posted by oriel
I assume you're just taking 4% of €2m but I don't think that's correct. The 2.3ish million debt figure included Revenue debts (500-600k), of which a large amount (probably more than 50%) was written off, players' wages of which 2/3 were paid, then the remainder was made up of business creditors, bank loans and six-figure loans from directors. Business creditors were given 2pc, banks presumably 4pc and directors' loans were written off.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
As far as I know, the 400 club raised 600-700k and running costs during examinership plus the examiners' costs probably came to half that. That leaves 300k+ of debt paid, probably. No breakdown has been given to the best of my knowledge. I'm not basing this on insider knowledge that some other posters might have, just the figures I dug up a few months back from bits and pieces of newspaper reports.
It's not an awful lot better - and nobody is proud of business creditors not being paid - but it was a huge achievement for a club with no assets to raise that much cash and at least give something out.
I think it's administration in England?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked