Friendly against England in June?

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Surely opposition to an Orange Order front organisation marching down O'Connell Street isn't because it's very minor? More likely to be because it risks winding up Shinners and their hangers-on and thus provking a major riot, as happened in 2006.

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The opposition would be in part to prevent a reason for trouble from both the SF/Eirigi and the unionist brigade. But the opposition would arise more so because imo such an order is not relevant to, wanted nor has any real presence in ROI.

The NI game is a night time game. The last time NI/ROI played at night was in 1993? I sincerely hope that no trouble arises but it will be a difficult one to police as there will be certain characters on both sides who would be more than happy to partake.

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Originally Posted by elroy

But the opposition would arise more so because imo such an order is not relevant to, wanted nor has any real presence in ROI

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If they were enirely irrelevant no-one would raise an eyebrow at 50 of them parading on Parnell Square, particularly if many of them were elderly and/or disabled. Any more than if they were an obscure Swiss Bank or Bulgarian homeless charity, or whatever.

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The NI game is a night time game. The last time NI/ROI played at night was in 1993? I sincerely hope that no trouble arises but it will be a difficult one to police as there will be certain characters on both sides who would be more than happy to partake

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A Setanta game between Linfield or Glens and Bohs or Rovers writ large? There is bound to be some lairiness, need for careful segregation, arrests and the like, but I'd expect the Garda to have detailed plans. But as they might well involve me being coralled into a freezing Ringsend car park for hours afterward I'd rather decline, thanks :)

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Surely opposition to an Orange Order front organisation marching down O'Connell Street isn't because it's very minor? More likely to be because it risks winding up Shinners and their hangers-on and thus provking a major riot, as happened in 2006.

The Garda and Government might have been justified in preventing the march- even if it had been just a symbolic small group of disabled and pensioners, without the Orange Order and possible paramilitary links. As it turned out, the impression given abroad was a large crowd of Dubliners rioting in Dublin.

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The 'riot' was largely unjustified. But even more unjustified was a minority group of archaic paranoid fools marching where they weren't wanted. Have they learnt anything from their experience up North??

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I think the FAI will have been monitoring this, Delaney isn't completely daft. As a 'test run' for a future England game, Dublin has two separate visits by two potentially large groups of Rangers fans for the Celtic Cup games, plus God knows who for the Europa Cup Final. They'll be better prepared than in 1995.

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Thought the North's fans were boycotting this. And if you'd ever met The Tartan Army outside Glasgow, hardly any of their fans support the Hun. Or Celtic for that matter, unsurprisingly enough.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

I'm fairly sure that Rangers are clearly the best-supported club side within the Tartan Army, as they are within the GAWA.

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Except they're not even the best-supported team in Glasgow, let alone The TA(see above/below). As for the North's fans, thought it was all ManU. or Linfield, an unholy alliance if there ever was one.
;)

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I wasn't exagerrating any political point, merely reminding that there's an overlap between Rangers and Scotland fans. As you'd expect, given that they're clearly the best-supported club side in their country.

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Not for the last 15 years or so. And they don't travel away, as do Celtic fans, as The TA have been keen to tell us!
;)

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I'm quite looking forward to the February game, but will give May a miss.

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Finally a game v. your other 'A' team??

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Originally Posted by Gather round

If they were enirely irrelevant no-one would raise an eyebrow at 50 of them parading on Parnell Square, particularly if many of them were elderly and/or disabled. Any more than if they were an obscure Swiss Bank or Bulgarian homeless charity, or whatever.

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Except it's what they potentially represent. And they weren't or won't be what you allude to in their make-up.
Also you seem to contradict your earlier point re. their relative status whilst the closing analogy makes no sense.

Not really an update on this as such.

But reading through this thread it was clear one of the biggest concerns was the element that might follow.

So my mind turned to Combat 18s forum and i joined that evening, however you need verification to see the threads so forgot about it until tonight.

There wasn't even a thread on the proposed friendly. There was mention of the ''Celtic Cup'' coming up but just general information about it.

There was some views shared though in the ''England world cup'' one, minor anti-irish sentiments but the general opinion was the ''blacks and the pakis'' are the problem and not other whites although IRA supporters are naturally not liked. The whole thread was about whether they'd be following England due to their large number of Black players.

I know it's not any great indicator of what to expect, but it's about as close as you'll get to the crowd behind the trouble in 1995.
It seems things have moved on, now that the North has somewhat settled and their attention has naturally turned to the mass emigration over the past 15 years.

Still off-topic, but did anybody hear a few months back when Nick Griffin claimed the Irish as "ethnically British" or something to that effect? Couldn't possibly be anything to do with his own particular heritage! In any case, I'd wager the white nationalist movement in general has morphed even in the last 15 years to the point where there's probably not enough subscribers left to be discarding other "whites".

Wasnt there something during the time of the Landsowne Rd Riots where on some C18 stickers they had a list of their top 10 hated "etnics", and the Irish were 4th and at the time some Irish people were a little disappointed we were not top!!! Would imagine we are way down the list at this stage.

Gilbert m16 are currently monitoring the new branch of NF in the west of Ireland

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Still off-topic, but did anybody hear a few months back when Nick Griffin claimed the Irish as "ethnically British" or something to that effect? Couldn't possibly be anything to do with his own particular heritage! .

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Exactly. He's trying to justify his Irish ancestry with that one. It's funny also how a group who were once very anti-semitic are now very much pro-Israel because the Muslims are now "the big enemy".

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Wasnt there something during the time of the Landsowne Rd Riots where on some C18 stickers they had a list of their top 10 hated "ethnics", and the Irish were 4th and at the time some Irish people were a little disappointed we were not top!!! Would imagine we are way down the list at this stage.

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No, we're still up there, just tucked in behind the 'muzzies'/Islam generally (Pakis-tan bears the brunt of this) and the Jews. Plus the 'black/half-caste' gangsta-type.
The 'No Surrender' thing is less so these days, but still pops up unexpectedly.

Though reading one of our 'fave' correspondents on here, originally from there many years ago, the North claim to have 'exclusive hating' rights on us. And have appointed us their rivals over and above 'Ingerland'.
:eek:

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

The 'No Surrender' thing is less so these days, but still pops up unexpectedly.

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I was at the Algeria-England game in Cape Town over the summer and was treated to a lusty chorus of "No Surrender" by a fairly substantial number of the England fans during the second half. I suppose the team's performance was reminiscent of the Graham Taylor days so maybe they were just feeling a bit nostalgic for the past.

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Originally Posted by EastTerracer

I was at the Algeria-England game in Cape Town over the summer and was treated to a lusty chorus of "No Surrender" by a fairly substantial number of the England fans during the second half. I suppose the team's performance was reminiscent of the Graham Taylor days so maybe they were just feeling a bit nostalgic for the past.

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I was at that too, didn't hear the chant but I was at the opposite end to most of the England fans, they were out noised by the Algerian drums where I was.
To be fair there wasn't much on field action to sing about ;-)

I was in Derby for their opening match against the US. Watched it in a big pub where there were lots of chants and sing songs. The most popular by a distance were 'Ten German Bombers' and 'No Surrender to the IRA'.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I was in Derby for their opening match against the US. Watched it in a big pub where there were lots of chants and sing songs. The most popular by a distance were 'Ten German Bombers' and 'No Surrender to the IRA'.

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Jaez these guys are "oh so lonely" for some enemies

They probably really grateful to Islamic terrorists for being good enemies. I wonder if the Islamic terrorists appreciates this.

Wouldnt be too sensitive about them singing no surrender. Many of us will happily join in with singing rebel songs at a sing song, or in the pub or at away matches etc. Doesnt mean we hate the Brits etc etc etc

Britain is still a anti-Irish in many respects. Anyone reading the bank bailouts a couple of months ago on the daily mail or the sun will know it still exists.

Nick Griffin says Irish are "indigenous" eh? So why does stories like this still exist?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ank-warns.html

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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

their attention has naturally turned to the mass emigration over the past 15 years

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I think they're more worried about mass immigration (although the other is a factor too- see any Australian cricket ground in recent weeks) :eek:

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Nick Griffin claimed the Irish as "ethnically British" or something to that effect? Couldn't possibly be anything to do with his own particular heritage! In any case, I'd wager the white nationalist movement in general has morphed even in the last 15 years to the point where there's probably not enough subscribers left to be discarding other "whites"

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It's probably a mistake to expect too much logic and consistency from the BNP, but I think the main reason for welcoming the Irish is to avoid any confusion or embarrassment to their Ulster unionist supporters.

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Originally Posted by Ardee Bhoy

No, we're still up there, just tucked in behind the 'muzzies'/Islam generally (Pakis-tan bears the brunt of this) and the Jews. Plus the 'black/half-caste' gangsta-type

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I doubt this is true. I moved to England in the mid-80s, with the Troublings still in full swing but before it kicked off in Iraq. Systematic racism was far worse against non-whites than the Irish. With NI much less of an issue recently, even more so.

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the North claim to have 'exclusive hating' rights on us. And have appointed us their rivals over and above 'Ingerland'

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What are exclusive hating rights? But your correspondent may well be right, almost all NI fans I know see the Republic as more of a rival than England. Even before the eligibility row.

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Originally Posted by Seanfhear

They probably really grateful to Islamic terrorists for being good enemies. I wonder if the Islamic terrorists appreciates this

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I think the rarity of England football fixtures with Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan might be more of a factor. Although the Afghans have beaten Ireland, Scotland and the USA in cricket recently.

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Originally Posted by Elroy

Wouldnt be too sensitive about them singing no surrender. Many of us will happily join in with singing rebel songs at a sing song, or in the pub or at away matches etc. Doesnt mean we hate the Brits etc etc etc

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Indeed. Although the thing about 'No Surrender' is that it has long been associated with the BNP and similar far-right organisations. Regardless of who they're playing.

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Originally Posted by Gnobe

Britain is still a anti-Irish in many respects. Anyone reading the bank bailouts a couple of months ago on the daily mail or the sun will know it still exists

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OK, but on that basis it's also anti Icelandic, Greek and the French/German-dominated EU. The Republic got more coverage because it's closer than the others, few people in Britain know or care much about Iceland or Greece.

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Nick Griffin says Irish are "indigenous" eh? So why does stories like this still exist?

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The Mail wouldn't thrive if it allowed Griffin's nutty theories to dictate their editorial line. The BNP has a 2-3% core vote here, but he's widely regarded as a crank. Whereas anxiety about immigration is a mainstream issue.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I was in Derby for their opening match against the US. Watched it in a big pub where there were lots of chants and sing songs. The most popular by a distance were 'Ten German Bombers' and 'No Surrender to the IRA'.

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Must've been nice to see that howler from Rob Green so ;

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Must've been nice to see that howler from Rob Green so ;

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Having neglected to compose an ode to the Yanks, they were at that moment, rendered speechless.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

I think they're more worried about mass immigration (although the other is a factor too- see any Australian cricket ground in recent weeks)

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Heh?

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It's probably a mistake to expect too much logic and consistency from the BNP, but I think the main reason for welcoming the Irish is to avoid any confusion or embarrassment to their Ulster unionist supporters.
I moved to England in the mid-80s, with the Troublings still in full swing but before it kicked off in Iraq. Systematic racism was far worse against non-whites than the Irish.

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Would have thought the BNP's stance on the North would find plenty of kindred spirits there. Especially down to the 'paranoia' factor! :eek:
Plus their unionist mates hardly want to be referred to as 'Irish'....
Except when it suits them.

And it was 'The Troubles'.

Ask real Irish people in England between the '50-80's about that anti-Irish thing. This discrimination was alive & well for many decades.
The colour thing was more obvious sadly, which made the anti-Irish sentiments even more repulsive from that context.

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What are exclusive hating rights? But your correspondent may well be right, almost all NI fans I know see the Republic as more of a rival than England.

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Why I don't know? Though seems to be labelled such by certain Nordies living in their mother 'country'.

They claim we are rightly mediocre and most of our fans don't have an issue with them, whereas 'Ingerland' have a far superior record at generally thrashing the North & qualifying for major tournaments, period.
:-(

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I think the rarity of England football fixtures with Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan might be more of a factor. Although the Afghans have beaten Ireland, Scotland and the USA in cricket recently.

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Meaning?

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Although the thing about 'No Surrender' is that it has long been associated with the BNP and similar far-right organisations.

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Unlike some of the North's fans to whom this is just a gentle loosener.
Hypocrisy? Surely not....

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The Republic got more coverage because it's closer than the others, few people in Britain know or care much about Iceland or Greece.

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Is there a country in the western EU referred to by this term? I think not!
Also the anti-Irish sentiment as stated elsewhere, still prevails in Brit.society.

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The Mail wouldn't thrive if it allowed Griffin's nutty theories to dictate their editorial line. The BNP has a 2-3% core vote here, but he's widely regarded as a crank.

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So insanity meets the Brit. political mainstream. What a surprise....

I found plenty of anti-Irish sentiment from English people when I was living in Edinburgh. They were okay most of the time, but if you ever got their bad side, it was always straight to the "stupid Paddy", mocking the accent, and barbs about potatoes. Mind you, it's not as prevalent, or as sickening, as the anti-English sentiments expressed regularly in Ireland.