Sunderland lose on penalties

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Maybe you're confusing this attitude with an anti-Englishness. Believe me, Kerr or McCarthy, I still won't be following Ireland.

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So why the concern?

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

In Scum Airways, the book about the black market that has grown up around Man Utd and other English clubs in Europe, one of United's hardcore is quoted as saying "the true football fan hates his own club's board first and his international team second" Don't expect you to agree but it made me smile.

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Right about the last bit but think the quote about hating his national team second is nothing but cojones. I've yet to know anyone like that although hating rivals players is another thing (hence Beckham in 1998 and 2000) and putting club before country is also common. Living here, come this summer, the sight of loads of football fans either not supporting England or supporting someone else is a dream I'd wish would come through. I'll let you know if it does.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Anyway, club before country every time. The majority of those that go the other way don't tend to follow clubs that closely* in my experience.

* as in not going to matches week in, week out, home and away.

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Fair comment here, certainly in my case. For me, following a big English club would be like following England. I've watched Deportivo - my mother's home town team - a few times in Europe but with me I've a secondary interest in club football compared with the national team.

Not going to get dragged into the pro-Mick anti-Mick debate again (think my views are well enough known here by now anyway), but am I alone in finding it really sad that people are watching Sunderland, hoping they'll fail just so they can hop on the ranty bandwagon again? Have yez really nothing better to do?! Neil McD made about five or six posts at the start of this thread before it finally diverted from being about the match in question into a rant - what are yez like?!

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Originally Posted by Macy

Anyway, club before country every time. The majority of those that go the other way don't tend to follow clubs that closely* in my experience.

* as in not going to matches week in, week out, home and away.

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Nail, head etc.

I watched Rovers over 50 times last season in Ireland and Europe, I also saw football in England, Scotland and Wales but If Ireland were playing in the back garden I'd close the curtains.

As for national pride, does that include shouting for Chris Doran? And where does that leave me following the cricket team?

And Plastic Paddy, the simple reason that you see Darlington, Rochdale etc flags at England games is it's their only chance of going to see "their" team in Europe. That's not a consideration for Utd of Liverpool fans who spend half their lives on the continent.

Ask any Rovers fan who went to Japan for the WC and was in Poland for the InterToto win over Odra which meant more and you know what answer you'll get.

KOH

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

And Plastic Paddy, the simple reason that you see Darlington, Rochdale etc flags at England games is it's their only chance of going to see "their" team in Europe. That's not a consideration for Utd of Liverpool fans who spend half their lives on the continent.

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I don't doubt it for a second, mate. I guess you've also to add in the fact that a proportion of the regulars at both OT and Anfield (and plenty of each club's followers) aren't in any case English.

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Ask any Rovers fan who went to Japan for the WC and was in Poland for the InterToto win over Odra which meant more and you know what answer you'll get.

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Well, I'm a little sceptical about your view here. I'm sure the majority would say that each trip meant different things rather than place them in direct comparison. I know that what I take from my club football and watching my country are different things.

:) PP

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In relatio to his win/loss ratio i think that is fair that he does have a decent record there, and my view is that Mc Carthy does have a decent record and is a decent manager, But when it really boils down to it at the pressure moments when the top managers shine he is left wanting.

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Pressure moments,wouldN'T the following fall into that category?...

Iran away in front of 70,000 crazy Arabs(pressure??!!!???)and we didn't concede.......Keane brigade circling in Japan,didn't crumble against Cameroon or Germany despite bad start to both games...etc etc
You can easily pick and choose events in this mega saga to suit your side. It's just as easy to give examples of games where we didn't concede in the latter stages.The reason you'd automatically think of the when Mick failed as opposed to succeded simply boils down to your opinion in the Keane/Mick affair.As does everyones posts on this thread & any related subjects.No one has given sufficient reason why they disliked him pre Keane/Mick affair because lets face it yous didn't....

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Originally Posted by Beavis

Iran away in front of 70,000 crazy Arabs(pressure??!!!???)and we didn't concede....

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err...we did. we lost that game. :confused:

But i take your point, you can use different games to 'prove' different arguments.

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Originally Posted by Beavis

Pressure moments,wouldN'T the following fall into that category?...

Iran away in front of 70,000 crazy Arabs(pressure??!!!???)and we didn't concede.......Keane brigade circling in Japan,didn't crumble against Cameroon or Germany despite bad start to both games...etc etc
You can easily pick and choose events in this mega saga to suit your side. It's just as easy to give examples of games where we didn't concede in the latter stages.The reason you'd automatically think of the when Mick failed as opposed to succeded simply boils down to your opinion in the Keane/Mick affair.As does everyones posts on this thread & any related subjects.No one has given sufficient reason why they disliked him pre Keane/Mick affair because lets face it yous didn't....

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Good point, you clearly know my opinions on McCarthy more than I do :rolleyes:

As I've said, I hate Keane and I don't rate McCarthy, so you're talking nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Good point, you clearly know my opinions on McCarthy more than I do :rolleyes:

As I've said, I hate Keane and I don't rate McCarthy, so you're talking nonsense.

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Find it hard to believe,have never come across someone who takes neither side.
But if it's the case you'll agree your a rarity among footballing circles. :ball:

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Originally Posted by ticktok

err...we did. we lost that game

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Alright we did concede but it hardly mattered at that stage.Point is we didn't crack despite having that tactical loon/temperementally fragile/all round cr@p(with a good record mind) manager McCarthy at the helm :rolleyes: ;)

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Originally Posted by Beavis

Pressure moments,wouldN'T the following fall into that category?...

Iran away in front of 70,000 crazy Arabs(pressure??!!!???)and we didn't concede.......Keane brigade circling in Japan,didn't crumble against Cameroon or Germany despite bad start to both games...etc etc
You can easily pick and choose events in this mega saga to suit your side. It's just as easy to give examples of games where we didn't concede in the latter stages.The reason you'd automatically think of the when Mick failed as opposed to succeded simply boils down to your opinion in the Keane/Mick affair.As does everyones posts on this thread & any related subjects.No one has given sufficient reason why they disliked him pre Keane/Mick affair because lets face it yous didn't....

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So let me see Beavis you have already been proven that two points in this post are facturally wrong, One, we did concede in Irian. and two there are people out there that were highly critical of Mc Carthy before Saipan. Maybe you did not listen to them but they existed I was one . Slashed as already said that he hates keane and does not rate mc Carthy as a manager. YOur last comment that no one has given sufficient reason as to why they disliked Mic pre the Saipan affair. Now I dont know if you are getting disliked or did not rate mixed up. I have consistantly said on the thread that Mick Mc Carthy is a probably a nice man, but to be honest i am of the view that i would rather 11 great players that are ******** that 11 average players that are lovely guys./ If you read back on the thread you will see about 8 points of why I dont rate Mc Carthy as a top manager. That is sufficient reason. I am not asking you to agree that Mc Carthy is not a great manager but dont dare to tell me or us that we only formed our opinions after Saipan when you dont know me or any of us here who are critical of Mc Carthy. I woudl not dare to second guess when you formed your views on Mc Carthy so I dont expect you to do the same with me

To be honest the dullest thing about it , is your posts as they are not well thought out opinions which are backed up with fact. They seemed to be tabloid rants such as the "the Brat is a scumbag or he is wnker or something challenging like that.

You will probably quote me and now say ahh at least we agree on something. To be honest this thread has nothing to do with Roy Keane at all and it seems to me that the only people who think it has anything to do with Roy Keane are the people how despise him. It started about the play offs and I just called into question Mc Carthys expertise at the highest level.. Nothing to do with Roy Keane in any way but i guess some people just cant see beyone that or dont want to. It suits the people how are anti Keane to reduce it to all about the Saipan incident when the criticisms of Mc Carthy where voiced long before that by me and others i am sure and by Johnny Giles and others in the media.

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Originally Posted by davros

Yes,but the pro-Brat/anti MMcC.,with certain exceptions(Who despise both!)basically sing from the same songsheet!
If your constituency don't want RMK to be continually slagged(rightly to the grave,IMO!)....Leave big MMcC alone!

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I have no problem you criticising Roy Keane, I could not give a toss. In addition there is a big difference between you saying RMK is a wanter or a brat or whatever and me and others analysing Mick Mc Carthy as a manager from a footballing point of view, One is personal the other is what is called analysing the game of football in an intelligent manner. I have no gripe with Mick Mc Carthy but i am entitled as a football supporter to analyse his management skills and I have never had a go at him or his personality on this forum. Your arguments against Keane seem to be
he is a brat
He is a ******
he is a judas

Not very intelligent analysis of a complex situation in my opinion.

Well i think you are wrong there cause a lot of extinguished journalists that have met him i.e

David Walsh
Paul Kimmage
Tom Humphries
Sean O Hagan

have all said that one thing that strikes them about Keane is his intelligence and his humility and his politeness. So your rants against hime and then saying that the only reason you have cave man jibes against him are because he is not intelligent is rubbish.

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Originally Posted by davros

Well he managed to prove himself highly ignorant to an entire nation....... :mad:

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No part of an entire nation. Whatever about you're own personal opinions, the fact that this debate keeps going around proves that the entire nation didn't and don't think he was ignorant to them.

Fair enought that is your view, but some disagree but i dont think we shoudl go down that road as peoles views are set in stone on this issue. I cant belive you have turned this thread about Roy keane. The point is mine and others views on Mick Mc Carthy are from a professional and footballing point of view whereas your views on Keane are entirely personal and filled with venom.

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Originally Posted by davros

That's because he always was & always will be a C*NT!(His Munich/Corcaigh connections dont help.......sympathise for the decent minority from both places.....)

Shame,Wise/Muscat not about tomorrow,to finish his career off for good!

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Once again you show yoruself to be a well balanced intelligent individual who is capable of interesting conversation and debates on footballing mattes

NOT.

I am sure Roy keane is worrying about you too.

To be honest I am not even going to argue as you obviously dont like him and thats fair enough and you two seem to be pre-occupied with personalties where i like to look at the footballing aspects and keep it on football terms rather then look at someones personality. I was prepared to say Mick is a nice man and stick to footballing issues but you cant do that with Roy Keane so you have to have a go at his personality which is fair enough but it does weaken the argument.

Sorry if you read through the posts again you will see i was arguing on the baisis of football and Davros said that Keane was not intelligent and in my response to that i said that someon journalist has another opinion to that just to balance it up. I did not argue that he was polite etc. I have kept all my posts about Mc Carthy on football issues but yourself and Davros do not. You are fascinated by Keane, I have interest in debating Roy keane here, and i was sticking to post about Mc Carthys ability as a manager. I responed to a comment by Davros that Keane was not intelligent and I just said that there are other views out there and listed well respected journalists that held this view. So if we can can we stick to football.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

So saying that Keane is intelligent, humble and polite is not an opinion about personality? Or are you just contradicting yourself.



What has someones politeness, intelligence and humility have to do with football. I think the point you're making is that YOU are entitled to comment on personalities but we're not!!



What have his being nice or not got to do with football? I think you've contradicted yourself within the space of a few words there. Me? I think Keane was a great footballer...

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Conor my point is that i have no problem with Mc Carthys personality and have consistantly said that on this and i have argued against his abilties to manage at the top level but for some reason yourself and Davros want to bring Roy Keane into this, i have no interest in doing so.

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Originally Posted by davros

Just an idle point,have you ever heard of a paragraph......would make posts easier to read!

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Sorry is it getting a little too complex for you in here ok i will bring things down to your level now

****, ******, **** artist, brat, ***** ******, hun, fenian, orange *******, more ranting ranting, hate, puke,

there you should feel at home understanding that

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Originally Posted by Silvio

I never laughed so much as I did when Blunderland lost the shoot out. Kharma is a wonderful thing eh Mick....;)

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Bitterness is a destructive thing, eh Silvio. Time to move on...? ;)

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Sorry is it getting a little too complex for you in here ok i will bring things down to your level now

****, ******, **** artist, brat, ***** ******, hun, fenian, orange *******, more ranting ranting, hate, puke

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You forgot "planters", "tans", "O6", "Br*ts", Neil. Clean your glasses. :)

:D PP