The "Bailout" That Is In Actual Fact A High-Interest Loan, Not Free Money.

Did anybody see VBrowne tonight on TV3? He had guys on talking about debts of 200-300 billion plus to be paid back at 5-6% interest. Basically saying that the country couldn't afford the bailout being offered. It would mean using something like 30% of all revenue to repay the debt, while the country is already running a deficit.

The consensus was to withdraw the guarantee and separate sovereign debt from bank debt, default on the bank debts (or renegotiate repayments) and manage the sovereign debt.

Granted, I think they were happy to paint a 'worst case scenario' and Browne caught the guy from Trinity/UCD on this, but it was still horrific stuff.

Frightening stuff. Its very hard to comprehend the mess we are in.

I wish the meedja would also stop referring to it as a bailout. That implies something for nothing, which this certainly isn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hoops1

Its very hard to comprehend the mess we are in.

---

And the vast majority of the mess is still tied to the bloody guarantee. 2 years on, and we're only starting to look at actually sorting out the banking system rather than proping up the existing one, and that's only because of the IMF, nothing to do with Lenihan or Cowen. I'm not sure straight nationalisation of the systemically important banks (i.e. not including Anglo) would've resulted in a different outcome (I guess it would've knocked 30-40 billion off the bill at least), but ffs at least we wouldn't have wasted over 2 bloody years, billions of euro and still ended up with a nationalised banking system as we are going to have now AIB and Bank of Ireland are going to majority state control.

Heard on the radio this morning that protests were being planned at the extent of the budget cuts. You have to wonder what planet people are living on at times.

It is clear as daylight that the only solution to Ireland's long-term survival is to default now. The country is going to be strangled to death if we sign up to this bailout fund if it's above 2% interest, 5%-7% will inflict the most painful slow death a state will ever see. We have to put the gun at the EU's heads while we have the opportunity and the clock is ticking very fast.

Fianna Fáil are sinking and they're going to make sure Ireland and the people go down with them. Scum of the earth is too nice of a phrase to describe these traitors.

Anyone else amazed by how underwhelming the four year plan is?
Even by the standards of these guys its poor.
Croke Park deal to be stuck to.

Just had a read there. Possibly the least imaginative thing I've ever read, as a civil servant it's a bit of a relief to see that they want to stick with Croke Park and are not planning any sweeping cuts.

It's definitely targetting the lower paid and unemployed more than any other sector and that's a very worrying aspect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Heard on the radio this morning that protests were being planned at the extent of the budget cuts. You have to wonder what planet people are living on at times.

---

The planet where social welfare and minimum wage receive greater cuts than people earning 100k+

The planet where a mess almost wholly down to the banking (and government collussion) has a national recovery plan that doesn't mention a single word about banking reform.

Protests aren't about the extent of cuts, they're about the gross unfairness of them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by passinginterest

Just had a read there. Possibly the least imaginative thing I've ever read, as a civil servant it's a bit of a relief to see that they want to stick with Croke Park and are not planning any sweeping cuts

---

Civil servants pension contributions are now made after tax, not before. Sneakily tough measure

Loads of vague waffle in it as well. Reads like a aspirational manifesto not a plan with clear goals and markers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dodge

The planet where social welfare and minimum wage receive greater cuts than people earning 100k+

The planet where a mess almost wholly down to the banking (and government collussion) has a national recovery plan that doesn't mention a single word about banking reform.

Protests aren't about the extent of cuts, they're about the gross unfairness of them

---

That's probably fair enough; it was just very badly worded on the news. It came across as people moaning cos we'd have to pull E5bn from somewhere, and could we not just cut a tenner instead.

Not like RTE to put a political slant on it...

Cheers for the merge adam, I should know better...

4FM actually. But I just lump it under "lazy journalists" to be honest.

Metro North to go ahead but interconnector cancelled. So Dublin will have another disparate transport link. Rocking.

No mention of a fire sale of income generating State assets, which is good but doesn't mean its not going to happen.

Cuts and charges for 80 pages and a few pages about investing in roads etc, does that mean the Gov have no ideas on how to make money? If only we had Albert, I'm sure he could think up of a few money making schemes.

page 87, 88
'capital investment by the ESB will be over €6 billion' .....'Bórd Gáis will invest in the region of €1.3 billion which will target .......':
I suppose that means those State companies have been able to function by managing to isolate themselves from Government interference, have come up with their own plans - away from Government interference and have been able to negotiate a foreign loan for those amounts, with their reputation untarnished by the stain of Government incompetence.

Yet it is presented as if government personally inspired the whole thing.

I posted this in general but...


Page 13, 14 and 80 are hilarious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by geysir

No mention of a fire sale of income generating State assets, which is good but doesn't mean its not going to happen.

---

page 80

"The sale of State assets could reduce the debt interest burden and the Government will be considering the disposal of assets. The recently established Review Group on State Assets and Liabilities will report by end December 2010. This will help to lower the ongoing interest cost."

Ouch, the sting is well and truly in motion.

My personal favourite line;

Productivity will be improved by eliminating outdated working and attendance arrangements and by better managing existing human resources and by better managing existing human resources across the Civil Service.
Bottom page 68 to top 69

Saying it twice definitely makes it more likely to happen :D

I read that the reports also said "that 45% of Irish taxpayers paid no income tax this year". How is that possible?