What Role Does the League of Ireland Play in Irish Football?

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Your post just now kind of makes the above post out to be a lie though, doesn't it?

Crap league, won't change, look at GAA, heads in sand, blah blah blah.

Why didn't you just say what you felt at the start?

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I admit that found it hard to believe that quote in the Genesis report and that's why I came to this forum to get the views of League of Ireland fans. With the exception of weecountryman and passinginterest (and maybe a couple of others) most of the contributions were passionate but not always reasoned. I decided to sleep on it overnight and consider the responses and then I made that post this morning. I still think that you have the wrong end of the stick on my views. I am not against the League - I jwant it to survive and indeed thrive - but nothing will ever really change until the majority of fans recognise that there is a need for major changes

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Originally Posted by Soccer Mom

I am not against the League - I jwant it to survive and indeed thrive - but nothing will ever really change until the majority of fans recognise that there is a need for major changes

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But nowhere has anybody denied the need for change. The disagreement is over what should be changed, and in what direction.

And forgive me, but when you say that your way to reinvigorate the league (you want it to "survive and indeed thrive") is to reduce it to amateur status, it makes me believe you are not very familiar with LOI football.

This isn't the first time that this kind of thing has happened on this site - somebody comes along and offers an idea on how to help the league; good reasons are given as to why fans think that idea won't work, and the person who put forward the idea in the first place comes to the conclusion that LOI fans are unwilling to change and have our heads stuck in the sand, simply because it was argued that their idea isn't as good as they thought it was.

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

I know others have addressed some of these issues but the thread title is �What Role Does the League of Ireland play in Irish Football� and the Op�s main question is �is the League of Ireland is strategically important to football in Ireland?� so I�ll start from the beginning and quite possibly cover some old ground.....

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That's a very interesting post and thanks for taking the time. Despite what others might think I can agree with the aspirations, I say 'aspirations' respectfully, but the League does not adequately fulfill the roles that we would all like it to do. Certainly the League should be strategically important but at the moment it is marginally important to Irish football at the moment and that is reflected in the underestimation in th grass roots and the FAI. The fans bear no blame for this but the owners and administrators of some clubs are guilty of bringing the reputation of the League into disrepute.

Thanks again passinginterest

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Originally Posted by osarusan

But nowhere has anybody denied the need for change. The disagreement is over what should be changed, and in what direction.

And forgive me, but when you say that your way to reinvigorate the league (you want it to "survive and indeed thrive") is to reduce it to amateur status, it makes me believe you are not very familiar with LOI football.

This isn't the first time that this kind of thing has happened on this site - somebody comes along and offers an idea on how to help the league; good reasons are given as to why fans think that idea won't work, and the person who put forward the idea in the first place comes to the conclusion that LOI fans are unwilling to change and have our heads stuck in the sand, simply because it was argued that their idea isn't as good as they thought it was.

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That's a fair enough comment - up to a point. I'm certainly not claiming to be the font of all wisdom. I put forward and idea that I feel has merit but I also asked for ideas from others and so far I haven't heard one. Just somewhat emotional pleas to leave the League alone (and the odd sexist sideswipe - but I'll respond to bennocelt in a moment). Honestly I want the LoI to prosper but as things stand at the moment I do not anticipate any significant improvement. Something needs to be done.

And for an example of how good our league could be, you only have to look at Norway and Sweden. Two countries of roughly similar size to Ireland. Both have a major European league right on their doorstep in Germany, both of them have a huge culture of following English league teams, and both of them have a considerably less hospitable climate than Ireland. The cultures are also very similar in the grand scheme of things, similar GDP per capita etc. And they both have fully professional leagues with an average attendance of over 3 times ours.

Hell, even look at Scotland. England is only down the road, and yet their first division still manages to have a higher attendance than our Premier. It's doable, but it needs the organising authority to coordinate a proper effort towards it.

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Originally Posted by Soccer Mom

That's a fair enough comment - up to a point. I'm certainly not claiming to be the font of all wisdom. I put forward and idea that I feel has merit but I also asked for ideas from others and so far I haven't heard one. Just somewhat emotional please to leave the League alone (and the odd sexist sideswipe - but I'll respond to bennocelt in a moment). Honestly I want the LoI to prosper but as things stand at the moment I do not anticipate any significant improvement. Something needs to be done.

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What!!! What the hell did I say in that post:p

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

I don't think you really understand football at all to be honest - you are talking about something you have never experienced or felt.

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Oops ! That comment nearly made me smudge my nail polish.

How on earth do you know what my experience in football is? For your information; I have played football (badly admittedly), I've been to League of Ireland matches, I've been in most Premier League grounds, I've watched my school win the all Ireland schools cup and then watched all their matches in the World schools final, I've watched Ireland in Dalyer, Lansdowne & Croker. I've been to few away international matches including Italia 1990 & USA 1994, I've been to schoolboys and B international matches. I will be in Tallaght Stadium tonight for Rovers V Celtic, and every second weekend (weather permitting) I help to mark the pitch and put up nets for my son's home matches. I also help out every Tues with his training sessions. Aside from that you're right - I've no real experience of football at any level.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

'What role does the League play in Irish football?' - quite simply, the most important.

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In what way?

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

And the fans of the league are the best in the world.

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But perhaps not the most tolerant of alternative views :)

I think you're equally - if not more - at fault in not tolerating alternate views.

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Originally Posted by Soccer Mom

Oops ! That comment nearly made me smudge my nail polish.

How on earth do you know what my experience in football is? For your information; I have played football (badly admittedly), I've been to League of Ireland matches, I've been in most Premier League grounds, I've watched my school win the all Ireland schools cup and then watched all their matches in the World schools final, I've watched Ireland in Dalyer, Lansdowne & Croker. I've been to few away international matches including Italia 1990 & USA 1994, I've been to schoolboys and B international matches. I will be in Tallaght Stadium tonight for Rovers V Celtic, and every second weekend (weather permitting) I help to mark the pitch and put up nets for my son's home matches. I also help out every Tues with his training sessions. Aside from that you're right - I've no real experience of football at any level.

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BTW Who did you go and see and was it recently?

And also what grabs your attention more between EPL, LoI, SPL, Ireland Internationals and Schoolboy Football?

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Originally Posted by endabob1

Passinginterest's post is a great one and makes many very good points.
I think the question for me is from a national point of view (so club allegiance to one side) does the league fall between two stools? Is it existing only to serve itself or should it be aiming towards a higher goal?
Most national leagues are feeders for their national team or for smaller leagues they are the breeding ground for young players who move onwards and upwards. While that may not be their primary goal it is certainly the outcome.
The LOI is closer to the second goal but I think until the tide of 15 year olds is halted or slowed to a trickle, questions remain.

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And that brings me to another view that I have but I am a bit wary of surfacing it now until I'm sure that no-one knows where I live :)

Your point is spot on. Maybe we need to move on and accept what we cannot change. Irish 15 year-olds aspire to playing in England and not the League of Ireland. I know because my son's team are u-15's and they all wear UK replica shirrts. In all of the years I have been involved with his team I cannot remember ever seeing one of the lads wearing a LoI shirt. They all eat, drink, sleep the English Premier League. I fear it's a tide that can't be stemmed so perhaps there is a way to rescue something from the situation?

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Originally Posted by Soccer Mom

Oops ! That comment nearly made me smudge my nail polish.

How on earth do you know what my experience in football is? For your information; I have played football (badly admittedly), I've been to League of Ireland matches, I've been in most Premier League grounds, I've watched my school win the all Ireland schools cup and then watched all their matches in the World schools final, I've watched Ireland in Dalyer, Lansdowne & Croker. I've been to few away international matches including Italia 1990 & USA 1994, I've been to schoolboys and B international matches. I will be in Tallaght Stadium tonight for Rovers V Celtic, and every second weekend (weather permitting) I help to mark the pitch and put up nets for my son's home matches. I also help out every Tues with his training sessions. Aside from that you're right - I've no real experience of football at any level.

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You know i used to bring my dog to the odd Leinster league game years ago, he loved the old game of football but he never could fully explain to me his passion for the game, pity that;)
I dont know, just from reading your post I guessed that you really might not be too clued into the game?? Or at least how important the LOI is to many on here

I think you're just plain wrong on that. In Donegal at least, loads of the young players are mad to get playing for Harps. Sure, who wouldn't want to make it big and earn megabucks in England, but that doesn't mean they don't want to play senior football with their local club.

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

And for an example of how good our league could be, you only have to look at Norway and Sweden. Two countries of roughly similar size to Ireland. Both have a major European league right on their doorstep in Germany, both of them have a huge culture of following English league teams, and both of them have a considerably less hospitable climate than Ireland. The cultures are also very similar in the grand scheme of things, similar GDP per capita etc. And they both have fully professional leagues with an average attendance of over 3 times ours.

Hell, even look at Scotland. England is only down the road, and yet their first division still manages to have a higher attendance than our Premier. It's doable, but it needs the organising authority to coordinate a proper effort towards it.

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I'm aware of the Scandanavian leagues peadar1987 and I would readily agree except that we have gone through a number of iterations and crowds remain stubbornly low. Hell sure the average attendance in the English Conference is slightly higher than here. Admittedly something is moving for Rovers at the moment and it is attracting interest and support from the Tallaght area and surroundings. But it takes a lot more than one or three clubs to tango - and it is far more than an organisational issue.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think you're equally - if not more - at fault in not tolerating alternate views.

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Ok then let's hear your view on how we can improve attendances and interest in the League of Ireland

I've expressed them many times before, as I'm sure everyone here will testify. There are plenty of threads discussing that already which you can search.

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Originally Posted by Soccer Mom

And that brings me to another view that I have but I am a bit wary of surfacing now until I'm sure that no-one knows where I live :)

Your point is spot on. Maybe we need to move on and accept what we cannot change. Irish 15 year-olds aspire to playing in England and not the League of Ireland. I know because my son's team are u-15's and they all wear UK replica shirrts. In all of the years I have been involved with his team I cannot remember ever seeing one of the lads wearing a LoI shirt. They all eat, drink, sleep the English Premier League. I fear it's a tide that can't be stemmed so perhaps there is a way to rescue something from the situation?

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In your opinion, is your son or any of his team mates good enough to play in the EPL?

If not do you not think they would be more than happy to play in the LoI whilst going to college or working another job also, in front of passionate fans with possibly their converted moms and dads attending also? Being given the chance to continue playing at a decent level, all the while maturing, gaining experience and sitting in a shop window. The LoI ain't bad really, certainly not evil!

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

You know i used to bring my dog to the odd Leinster league game years ago, he loved the old game of football but he never could fully explain to me his passion for the game, pity that;)
I dont know, just from reading your post I guessed that you really might not be too clued into the game?? Or at least how important the LOI is to many on here

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I had a dog like that once but the swine signed for Dogchester Rovers in England.

I know a bit about the game but I can't claim to be a significant League of Ireland fan and clearly I'm out of step with most of the members but I'm still entitled to express a view. Would it help to improve the general mood if I said that I bought a 2010 season ticket for Rovers for my son?

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Originally Posted by Soccer Mom

And that brings me to another view that I have but I am a bit wary of surfacing it now until I'm sure that no-one knows where I live :)

Your point is spot on. Maybe we need to move on and accept what we cannot change. Irish 15 year-olds aspire to playing in England and not the League of Ireland. I know because my son's team are u-15's and they all wear UK replica shirrts. In all of the years I have been involved with his team I cannot remember ever seeing one of the lads wearing a LoI shirt. They all eat, drink, sleep the English Premier League. I fear it's a tide that can't be stemmed so perhaps there is a way to rescue something from the situation?

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I think you should differentiate between "wanting to play in England" and the Premier League , I doubt there's many out there who actually want to play in the English lower leagues

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Originally Posted by OneForTheFuture

In your opinion, is your son or any of his team mates good enough to play in the EPL?

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No but two of his pals have played for Ireland u-15s and at least one has had a trial in England. Can't remember which club

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Originally Posted by OneForTheFuture

If not do you not think they would be more than happy to play in the LoI whilst going to college or working another job also, in front of passionate fans with possibly their converted moms and dads attending also? Being given the chance to continue playing at a decent level, all the while maturing, gaining experience and sitting in a shop window. The LoI ain't bad really, certainly not evil!

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Of course they would but you're taking things a bit far if you think I said the LoI was "evil". All I'm saying is that the LoI is not strategically important to Irish football - but it should be! It needs an overhaul to claim it's rightful spot in the Irish football pantheon.

This whole arguement is absolutly bogus and quite pretentious if you ask me.
The LoI provides a decent quality in footballing standards, is entertaining and has a passionate support.
Most of all the LoI is the pinnacle if Irish football, alot of barstoolers will dispute that by mentioning the National Team as a way to justify embarresing themselves in England hanging tri-clours in Stamford Bridge. But in the end of the day National Teams are merely a side show in the footballing circuit, a carnival struck up every few months but it is clubs which are the lifeblood and the pivot of football in a country.
They train and develop players and provide constant competition so therefore the LoI is the pinnacle of football in Ireland.

Then you have those plastic paddys that do their bi-annual migration to see some foreign club (not in referance to you SM) that dictate to us how "we" should change our league more like the Premiership.
NO, its got problems but so does every league and as far as I can see its moving in the right direction and its just insulting for these fake fans to come and dictate to the people who keep football alive in this country how we should obliterate a league thats been around for decades and sustained by us to facilitate some moronic Merchandise United fan for his annual trip to a LoI ground.
The LoI is better without these event junky customers, we have got football fans.

And SM in referance to you about not paying players, I think thats quite insulting to players, they provide a product that generates revenue, they deserve to be paid for that and to suggest otherwise is bizarre tbh, you wouldnt say it about any other employment in the world. And using the GAA as a referance point in the whole Amateur status does not stand up when in all reality the GAA is moving ever closer to paying its players which it rightfully should.

Also on my last point, since the LoI is the pinnacle of football in this country, what is that footballing sideshow called the National Team actually doing for the LoI, fukc all as far as I can see so they really do have to get their act togethor although in further analysis they do constantly dissapoint in product wise, we are not in the World Cup afterall?

Evil enough to beat over the head with a big Amateur stick:D

I know but a lot is to do with attitudes rather than structures etc. If we can love our National Team why can't we love our National League? I don't get it!

As I said earlier people can support the LoI without it interferring with their following of the EPL and Internationals..... None of them clash!

If we selected our Irish team entirely from the LoI we'd be sorted:D

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I've expressed them many times before, as I'm sure everyone here will testify. There are plenty of threads discussing that already which you can search.

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I've tried searching but it's like looking into a bush. Can you just let me know, in your opinion, what is the single most important thing that needs to be done to improve the League of Ireland? Just one sentence please?