Budget 2009

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Originally Posted by centre mid

..But also neccesary.

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Reform is necessary, punishing low paid workers and short term planning is disastrous.

Who blinked though?

I agree entirely but the wages bill had to be cut. Reform and value for money should be a prerequisite, not just done when times are hard. Value for money has to be achieved from the SME's right up to the largest of multi-nationals.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Who blinked though?

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Unions are adamant it was the Government, but they would say that, it's hard to know what to believe, but an opportunity for serious and necessary reform was lost and is not likely to present itself again any time soon.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

So someone who is 21 moves out and should pay rent on 100 euro a week.

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They certainly should not be "entitled " to a home at the expence of the tax payer

So where do they live saint. Answer the question. Put them on the street remember they cant move home as their parents could be dead, or drunks or abusive or they may not have a good relationship with their parents.

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

Unions are adamant it was the Government, but they would say that, it's hard to know what to believe, but an opportunity for serious and necessary reform was lost and is not likely to present itself again any time soon.

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Someone should be pinning it down. No one is willing to take blame in this country and that's a serious issue imho. The whole Bertie / Tony /Dubya "that's in the past now" attitude has to go away. Irish people need to stand up and demand accountability, and sackings. Not resignations, sackings.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

So where do they live saint. Answer the question. Put them on the street remember they cant move home as their parents could be dead, or drunks or abusive or they may not have a good relationship with their parents.

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your talking worse case senario to which the only amswer i can give you is i dont know, but i dont think the state should house someone whos excuse is "i need to move out cause i dont get on with me ma "
i dont know anyone in that situation but i do know people who have never worked have no intention in getting work but yet were givin a home for little or nothing and have more dispossable income than a lot of people who work hard , so while their out buying new clothes new cars socialising the hard worker is killing himself /herself to make ends meet .

I've never come across anyone who has never worked but has a new car and a lot of disposable income like you mention. I've heard a few people talk about them, but never actually come across them. Except maybe some criminals, but that's a whole different ball game.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

I've never come across anyone who has never worked but has a new car and a lot of disposable income like you mention. I've heard a few people talk about them, but never actually come across them. Except maybe some criminals, but that's a whole different ball game.

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try west dublin

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Originally Posted by centre mid

I applaud the government for taking a tough line with the public sector and making the pay cuts as they have now lost countless tens of thousands of votes at the next election.

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Cutting public sector pay was the easy decision, not a hard one, in the climate the Government and others have created.

Nothing on job creation, still no overall plan (they're already talking about looking for next year), no stimulus. And you applaud this budget?

btw, I was flicking between them, but on either Morning Ireland or Newstalk this morning there was someone saying (I think from the ERSI) that now public sector wages have been cut, we must look at the private sector given the figures show they haven't been cut. Well done to all those that fell into the trap.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Someone should be pinning it down.

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I thought it had been pinned on the Government. If they didn't believe there was a basis, then they wouldn't have called of the strike. Garret Fitzgerald has been especially damning of the whole farce today. I can't see a deal being done with the current Government.

I don't think the reduction in VAT and reduction off duty on drink will do anything to halt cross border shopping. What maybe affect it more is the rumoured UK VAT rate increase to 17% (maybe Lenihan knows about it already?).

What will affect cross border trade is the carbon tax. It'll effectively kill off the difference between petrol prices north and south of the border.

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Originally Posted by brendy_éire

I don't think the reduction in VAT and reduction off duty on drink will do anything to halt cross border shopping. What maybe affect it more is the rumoured UK VAT rate increase to 17% (maybe Lenihan knows about it already?).

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It was never to do with that, it's just the cover. And if it was, they would've just applied it to the off trade.

I think the budget was fairly uninspired and took the easy choices as a few people above have said. The national solidarity bond could be useful, but we need a lot more detail on it.

I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that there was nothing meaningful in terms of the job creation and investment fronts. This government is bereft of ideas and intelligence, but then we knew that already.

I'm equally disappointed that pretty much every finding of the McCarthy report was kicked to touch. I'm not sure why its generally accepted that any sense of structural reform in the public sector needs union approval? Reform, modernisation and evolution happen in the daily life of most businesses without a second thought, why is it such a big deal in the public sector and only happen as part of negotiation?

There's no doubt in my mind that the public sector wage cuts are being used for dual purposes, i.e. primarily to shrink the gap between government spending and revenue but also as a by-product to drive private sector wages down (David Begg's constant reference to a competitive devaluation in the absence of control of currency or interest rates). Whilst nobody actually wants to see this happening, I'm not sure there is any real way to stimulate growth in a small open economy without doing this? Whatever about the governments lack of ideas and support for job creation, I can't see any economic way of fostering exports with costs at current levels, other than pressing the nuclear button and taking our chances outside the Eurozone.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Cutting public sector pay was the easy decision, not a hard one, in the climate the Government and others have created.

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A tough line not a tough decision.

At least they are finally making a decision. Social partnership is now well and truly dead, rightly or wrongly we are in a different era now.

I am broadly happy with the Budget, Why? because I am a Private sector worker who lost his Job five months ago.

Ultimately the elephant in the room was Public sector paybill it had to be tackled in order to restore some form of stability in government finances and public confidence. Yes it is sad for lower paid workers in public service who are already finding it difficult to cope with increased taxes from previous budgets now they have to accept 5% cut, But on the plus side the cost of living has decreased by 6%.

You cannot have a sucessful economy without the Private sector which has been bludgeoned over the past eighteen months with severe pay cuts and job losses. The public sector pay is driven by the success in private sector, if there is not relative balance between both then we simply cannot stay competitive as a country in an open economy. Whats the alternative appease Unions with ridiculous 12 days off plan and totally confuse an already huge bureaucratic beast.

This country lost its way under that Gob****e Bertie Ahern everybody must now take the pain and simply get on with it, I know I am even without a Job.

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

You cannot have a sucessful economy without the Private sector which has been bludgeoned over the past eighteen months with severe pay cuts and job losses.

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And what was in the budget to create jobs and stimulate the economy. Again I ask, you are happy with the budget?

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Originally Posted by Macy

Nothing on job creation, still no overall plan (they're already talking about looking for next year), no stimulus. And you applaud this budget?

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No, I'm worried by the budget, but I applaud that they have finally made a decision. I made the same point about there being now coherent job creation policy.

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btw, I was flicking between them, but on either Morning Ireland or Newstalk this morning there was someone saying (I think from the ERSI) that now public sector wages have been cut, we must look at the private sector given the figures show they haven't been cut. Well done to all those that fell into the trap.

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ERSI say there has been no decrease in wages in the private sector, SME & IBEC say there has. Anyone who says there has been no wages reduction in the private sector is talking manure. Virtually no job security, not knowing month to month if your company is going to survive, a pension that is worhtless at this stage.

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Originally Posted by Macy

And what was in the budget to create jobs and stimulate the economy. Again I ask, you are happy with the budget?

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Good Point...I had little hope of a stimulus package in first place, circa €950 million was taken off capital spending which we are now told is mitigated in build tender prices now coming 20% lower than previous years. Beyond capital spend and infrastructural improvement for the moment I cannot think of anything that stimulate growth in the short to medium term in a open economy.

How about a public works scheme that would prevent floods. It would both future proof the houses and business of thousands and also prevent employment and it could be a public private partnership with the insurance industry whose interest it would serve as it would prevent further claims in the future.

Holland spend over a billion a year on flood prevention.