Republic of Ireland V Poland - Wednesday, 19th November 2008 - Friendly

Shambles. The only reason for hope is our position in the group and I honestly think that is more to do with the fact that we got our relatively easy matches first. We got to play a difficult away game at a neutral venue with far more of our own fans (as opposed to Tblisi where Bulgaria and Cyprus both dropped points and the Scots fatally lost in the last campaign), we scraped a less than impressive point in tiny Montenegro and were seemingly happy about it and last but not least fluked an completely undeserved win over a Cyprus team missing a couple of key players. The crazy thing is a playoff spot might be as good as secured without doing anything impressive if we beat Georgia at home in February and get another bit of luck against an imploding Bulgarian team who lost 6-1 against Serbia last night and seem to have serious issues with their own manager, not to mention the injury to key player Martin Petrov.

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

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Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

Shambles. The only reason for hope is our position in the group and I honestly think that is more to do with the fact that we got our relatively easy matches first. We got to play a difficult away game at a neutral venue with far more of our own fans (as opposed to Tblisi where Bulgaria and Cyprus both dropped points and the Scots fatally lost in the last campaign), we scraped a less than impressive point in tiny Montenegro and were seemingly happy about it and last but not least fluked an completely undeserved win over a Cyprus team missing a couple of key players. The crazy thing is a playoff spot might be as good as secured without doing anything impressive if we beat Georgia at home in February and get another bit of luck against an imploding Bulgarian team who lost 6-1 against Serbia last night and seem to have serious issues with their own manager, not to mention the injury to key player Martin Petrov.

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You are an utter mong. Italy scraped a win against Montengro, in Italy. Bulgaria needed a free kick with the last kick of the game to scrape a draw. We were largely comfortable throughout. The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about.

I can't wait to see what League One striker scores a few goals in the weeks before the Georgia game in February that leads to the teletext readers demanding his inclusion and labelling Trappatoni a disgrace for not picking him.

Am I the only one who thought Folan was useless last night? The ball bounced off him more often than not, and often he looked to be making a huge effort to get it someway under control yet he'd be dispossessed with absolute ease by the Polish defenders. He had a couple of decent openings, but it took so long to get the ball under control that the opening would be gone. It was like watching Conor Sammon again.

(And actually, I know I'm not the only one, as everyone around me came away with one main impression from the match, which was that Folan was rubbish).

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

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Who knows how Garvan and co would do? they might not be up to it either, u could be right there. Surely they are as entitled to a call up as Glenn Whelan and Darron Gibson though. These guys are nobody's but seem to have the places in CM cemented, especially Whelan who seems to be a key player in Trapps eyes, the guy is worse than useless with absolutely no potential to improve as far as I can see so why waste time with him. Gibson has been poor but I think was worth a call up, no ready yet though.

I only saw the brief RTE highlights, pity cause it looked like an interesting game.
A very good exposure to where we are at now.

Starting with Keogh was the most dubious, he is at best a good sub.
There was even nothing to learn from starting him at RM, we already knew that one.
CM lacks "personality", bite and presence.
As for the rest of the team, that's as good as it gets considering the couple of injuries.

Folan looked alright and Andrews has made a mark.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

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FFS!!

we realise garvan and o toole's positions

but the point is that there is no point in trying to play a system with reserve team players

if you dont have the players to play the system for a friendly then just try something else ..a different system...its a friendly..friendlies are for experimentation


there will come a time in the group where a system change will be required ..... so why not try it in a friendly..NOT play 2 reserves in 2 defensive midfield positions...we already knwo thats does not work

try changing the system to adapt in new players

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Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

Who know how Garvan and co would do? they might not be up to it either, u could be right there. Surely they are as entitled to a call up as Glenn Whelan and Darron Gibson though. These guys are nobody's but seem to have the places in CM cemented, especially Whelan who seems to be a key player in Trapps eyes, the guy is worse than useless with absolutely no potential to improve as far as I can see so why waste time with him. Gibson has been poor but I think was worth a call up, no ready yet though.

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Because Trappatoni has an idea, a plan. He wants to big defensive midfielders. Whelan hasn't been useless thus far, you're way, way off if you think so and I get the impression you don't watch a lot of football if you think so.

You're right, we don't know how Garvan and co would do. So do you recommend Trap picking a different XI every game, as that's what you seem to be suggesting. And its ludicrous. You can argue for Carsley or Andrews to come in to the midfield and do a holding job, but suggesting that John Joe O'Toole is going to make the difference between us and Italy, well you're mad.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

You are an utter mong. Italy scraped a win against Montengro, in Italy. Bulgaria needed a free kick with the last kick of the game to scrape a draw. We were largely comfortable throughout. The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about.

I can't wait to see what League One striker scores a few goals in the weeks before the Georgia game in February that leads to the teletext readers demanding his inclusion and labelling Trappatoni a disgrace for not picking him.

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We're not talking about Italy!! they're inability to hammer these team doesn't change the fact that we were poor against them.

"We were largely comfortable throughout"

What does this mean- we didn't even win the game so how could we be largely comfortable throughout. Oh yes I know, u mean that we never looked like losing the match but we were playing Montenegro so I was kind of hoping we might win the match. Plus it took a super save from Given late on to get us a point so I would have called that comfortable anyway.

"The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about."

Ok we had our chances too but they laid siege to our goal late on, and considering we were at home to minnows of intn football I'd expect a bit better.

As for the Lge 1 striker thing, that's just stupid.

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Originally Posted by back of the net

FFS!!

we realise garvan and o toole's positions

but the point is that there is no point in trying to play a system with reserve team players

if you dont have the players to play the system for a friendly then just try something else ..a different system...its a friendly..friendlies are for experimentation


there will come a time in the group where a system change will be required ..... so why not try it in a friendl..NOT play to reserves in 2 defensive midfield positions

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And what will we learn from playing two attack minded 20 year olds against that Polish midfield? They'd have been swamped, completely overrun and we'd have been beaten a lot easier than we were. And then there'd be morons on here going mad that they got a cap just like the abuse Gibson got after his debut, and then these nobodys will be demanding some other poor schmuck gets a call up.

We have a way of playing, its going quite well so far. We're on course to qualify. We created plenty of chances last night, and conceded goals from a couple of defensive lapses that we havent shown in the previous six games. Calm down.

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Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

We're not talking about Italy!! they're inability to hammer these team doesn't change the fact that we were poor against them.

"We were largely comfortable throughout"

What does this mean- we didn't even win the game so how could we be largely comfortable throughout. Oh yes I know, u mean that we never looked like losing the match but we were playing Montenegro so I was kind of hoping we might win the match. Plus it took a super save from Given late on to get us a point so I would have called that comfortable anyway.

"The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about."

Ok we had our chances too but they laid siege to our goal late on, and considering we were at home to minnows of intn football I'd expect a bit better.

As for the Lge 1 striker thing, that's just stupid.

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Oh good god. Are you saying anything other than a win away from home even against a difficult team like Montengro, who have run Italy and Bulgaria all the way, means it was a bad performance?!! Despite the fact we limited them and their dangerous attack to long range efforts.
Cyprus didn't lay siege to our goal. They had a couple of chances, one of which was a good chance. We survived easily enough and should have scored more than one ourselves. And these are the international minnows who played Italy off the park 4 days earlier. But hey, I bet you've never heard of any Cypriots or Montengrens on Match of the Day so they're probably rubbish and its a disgrace that the old bloke who can throw the ball really far isn't the first name on the teamsheet for Ireland.

Mod hat - Jicked, calm down please. There's other ways of arguing a point without calling people mongs or going down eh "Oh good God" route.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Because Trappatoni has an idea, a plan. He wants to big defensive midfielders. Whelan hasn't been useless thus far, you're way, way off if you think so and I get the impression you don't watch a lot of football if you think so.

You're right, we don't know how Garvan and co would do. So do you recommend Trap picking a different XI every game, as that's what you seem to be suggesting. And its ludicrous. You can argue for Carsley or Andrews to come in to the midfield and do a holding job, but suggesting that John Joe O'Toole is going to make the difference between us and Italy, well you're mad.

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I haven't mentioned John Joe O'Toole in one comment up until now and know f*ck all about him to be honest. I've seen Garvan and think he looks a class ahead of the two boys (GW&DG). I could be proved wrong. I watch plenty of soccer but don't get to see Whelan and Gibson all that often for obvious reasons.

lads anybody know what u win for getting picked for "nivea face in the crowd" at half time?

i thought the match was enjoyable the polish support was great and all the people who left early missed 3 goals

I'd say lots of Nivea stuff, at a guess.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'd say lots of Nivea stuff, at a guess.

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Oh he will delighted so:) ive never watch ireland away from home are they supporters as vocal as the polish last night?

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Oh good god. Are you saying anything other than a win away from home even against a difficult team like Montengro, who have run Italy and Bulgaria all the way, means it was a bad performance?!! Despite the fact we limited them and their dangerous attack to long range efforts.
Cyprus didn't lay siege to our goal. They had a couple of chances, one of which was a good chance. We survived easily enough and should have scored more than one ourselves. And these are the international minnows who played Italy off the park 4 days earlier. But hey, I bet you've never heard of any Cypriots or Montengrens on Match of the Day so they're probably rubbish and its a disgrace that the old bloke who can throw the ball really far isn't the first name on the teamsheet for Ireland.

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I would agree that a point away to Montenegro wasn't a complete disaster as they are clearly useful enough. The worst thing about that game is we never really threatened ourselves (although we should have had a pen or two) and to be fair I don't think they were completely unhappy with a point themselves. Like John Joe what's his face I haven't mentioned Delap either and don't think he should be in the team. The way I see it Whelan isn't good enough and will never be, not sure about Gibson but has done nothing yet, maybe if he leaves United he'll improve further.

As for the whole mong thing well obviously I'm seeing the glass as being half empty at the moment. In the time I've been watching soccer I've always felt that the centre midfield being able to hold their own was important, crazy as it may sound. Completely overrun AT HOME by Cyprus and Poland isn't good enough and if you have seen it differently then maybe tis u that doesn't watch enough soccer. Or maybe it's u that just checks Aertel:

IRELAND P3 W2 D1 L0 F3 A1 PTS7

Jeeze they must be doing well........doesn't tell the full story though does it??

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Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

I haven't mentioned John Joe O'Toole in one comment up until now and know f*ck all about him to be honest. I've seen Garvan and think he looks a class ahead of the two boys (GW&DG). I could be proved wrong. I watch plenty of soccer but don't get to see Whelan and Gibson all that often for obvious reasons.

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As a Watford season ticket holder I can confirm he has matured physically and mentally....has scored 7 goals so far and is by far Watford's most attacking weapon.....he'll almost certainly be bought by a Premiership team in January

I was surprised that he wasn't picked in this squad for a "look/see"

http://www.watfordfc.premiumtv.co.uk...~41474,00.html

Plenty of other people have mentioned O'Toole and Delap, and to be honest if you're throwing the international career of Glenn Whelan away, then you're going to have to replace him with Gibson, Andrews, Delap, O'Toole, Carsley (who wont be around after this season), Reid, Fahey, Garvan and a handful of others you can play at CM instead. The list shortens if you want a particular type of player. So say Whelan is never good enough to play again, which is crazy, and its pretty hard to find a replacement. Carsley, Delap or Andrews. And I'd put Whelan ahead of the lot of them on the back of his performances thus far, and the fact Carsley will retire in May (certainly wont be around to go the WC anyway) and Delap is would be a ridiculous choice.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

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Garvan isn't an attacking midfielder. He's a playmaker. A guy that takes the ball from defence and gets moves started. Always available for a pass and has a great pass.

O'Toole is getting the goals but he's a very combative player. He'll hassle the opposition all day.

Anyway, I wouldn't have O'Toole in the squad yet as he's still unproven. Garvan is up to it already imo.