Steve Finnan joins Espanyol

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Plenty were singing his praises claiming he was brilliant having obviously never watched him before. I correctly stated he was sh*t having watched him in more than one game.


Both teams are the International equivalent of lower Championship teams possibly even League 1 in Georgia's case so I wouldn't read too much into those performances. All the goldfish on here as usual easily forget he was rubbish in the previous friendlies against better opposition.


Not true I think Glen Whelan is average.


Not true I do just know more. Way more. It's a hard life being this clever though I can tell you.

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Again you have not said one person who said he was the next Roy Keane. I don't think anybody said that and nobody said he was brilliant. I think some people may have said it was a brilliant performance or something to that effect.

Again who said that Whelan was the real deal and that he was the future of our midfield. What people said they were delighted with his performances and that he was a success in there for those particular games.

You put words in people mouths. You then disagree with the words that you have put in their mouth.

Your last line says it all.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Again, who was saying he is our best option at left back. Kilbane had lots of people sticking up for him, both a few years ago and now also. He has also had his critics but his critics were never against him personally it was more to do with his ability to play centre mid. He is a dedicated player for Ireland who has probably found his best position for Ireland. Is he the best option, that is open to debate which is fair enough.

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Actually that is the very question I posed when suggesting that maybe Finnan should play at left full. Niether did I have a go at Kilbane other than to suggest that he is not experienced in this position. What exactly are we argoing about here?

Totally agree however that Whelan will be found out and he is not our best long or medium term option in this position. Garvan, McCann, McCarthy and possibly O'Toole all have more to offer as have Lee Carsley, Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland.

Looks almost a certainty that Finnan will be out of the Cyprus game.
And Kelly is out for a month

Who are the replacements? I'm happy enough with keeping O'Shea in the middle

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Trapp has identified a role for him and he fills it well. Of the young tyros coming through they're all exciting prospects and I'd have some in the squad but none is that similar in style to Whelan - this is where I disagree with YI. Most are more like Steven Reid in my opinion.

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Garvan performs a very similar role for Ipswich to what Whelan does for Ireland. Holding player, breaking up the play, doesn't get forward too much but excellent at distributing the ball from deep.

McCann is slightly more attacking and runs with the ball a bit more.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Looks almost a certainty that Finnan will be out of the Cyprus game.
And Kelly is out for a month

Who are the replacements? I'm happy enough with keeping O'Shea in the middle

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Kevin Foley would be a possible replacement. J O'Brien would also be a possibility but as someone pointed out he hasn't been playing RB this season so maybe it would be better to play Foley there. He's supposed to be having a good season so fa with Wolves. Of course another option is McShane but I don't know how he's getting on at Hull. Unlike LB we have a few half-decent options at RB; even if they don't have much international experience.

Looks like McShane will get the nod, as he was the one brought on in Montenegro.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Garvan performs a very similar role for Ipswich to what Whelan does for Ireland. Holding player, breaking up the play, doesn't get forward too much but excellent at distributing the ball from deep.

McCann is slightly more attacking and runs with the ball a bit more.

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Anytime I've seen Garvan he's got forward far more than Whelan. McCann I think we agree on and I'm sure we all agree that the last thing O'Toole is is a deep lying midfielder.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

Totally agree however that Whelan will be found out and he is not our best long or medium term option in this position. Garvan, McCann, McCarthy and possibly O'Toole all have more to offer as have Lee Carsley, Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland.

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The point is that Trap has decided we need someone to sit deep, offer options to the defence, make tackles / protect the defence and use the ball well.

Of the players you cite above, only Carsley in my opinion could play the same role as Whelan. YI and I disagree over Garvan but I don't doubt Garvan's ability - I've practically been his biggest protagonist here. Same as O'Toole - big talent but not suited to Whelan's role. I can't comment on McCarthy, Reid is a wonderful talent but I wouldn't trust him in the role that Trap wants played. Stephen Ireland is nothing but an attacking midfielder.

Do you think Carsley ahs more to offer Llong term?

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Originally Posted by Irish_Praha

Kevin Foley would be a possible replacement. J O'Brien would also be a possibility but as someone pointed out he hasn't been playing RB this season so maybe it would be better to play Foley there. He's supposed to be having a good season so fa with Wolves. Of course another option is McShane but I don't know how he's getting on at Hull. Unlike LB we have a few half-decent options at RB; even if they don't have much international experience.

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Wolves fans have been eulogising about Kevin Foley. I don't know if he has passed Young Irish's pants or not pants test:rolleyes:
If Trap thinks McShane is better than Foley then we should be alright.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

The point is that Trap has decided we need someone to sit deep, offer options to the defence, make tackles / protect the defence and use the ball well.

Of the players you cite above, only Carsley in my opinion could play the same role as Whelan. YI and I disagree over Garvan but I don't doubt Garvan's ability - I've practically been his biggest protagonist here. Same as O'Toole - big talent but not suited to Whelan's role. I can't comment on McCarthy, Reid is a wonderful talent but I wouldn't trust him in the role that Trap wants played. Stephen Ireland is nothing but an attacking midfielder.

Do you think Carsley ahs more to offer Llong term?

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What about Joey O'Brien Stutts plays a very similar role for Bolton and geysir I reckon Foley looks good but don't forget McShane looked quality in the Championship a couple of seasons ago.

We'll see when he's in the Premiership which will probably be sooner rather than later.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

What about Joey O'Brien Stutts plays a very similar role for Bolton and geysir I reckon Foley looks good but don't forget McShane looked quality in the Championship a couple of seasons ago.

We'll see when he's in the Premiership which will probably be sooner rather than later.

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I will start by saying that I like the look of both Garvan and O Toole and Mc Cann.

However all 3 who you are raving about and saying they should be in the squad and the side are all playing Championship football. So if your above point is what you feel, it does not sit easily then with your calls about Garvan and O Toole and Mc Cann to be in the squad ahead of other Premiership players.

Again I will state I am a fan of all 3 players having seen them a few times.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

What about Joey O'Brien Stutts plays a very similar role for Bolton and geysir I reckon Foley looks good but don't forget McShane looked quality in the Championship a couple of seasons ago.

We'll see when he's in the Premiership which will probably be sooner rather than later.

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Foley was really impressive for Luton in the FA cup against Liverpool a couple of seasons ago. Only one game, but his form for Wolves since his transfer has also been outstanding. The difference with McShans is that he is obviously a good technical player who also holds his position and has top draw delivery when he comes forward. Even when playing well in the Championship,what impressed about McShane was his determination, attitude and energy, quallities that are never likely to be enough on their own at a higher level.

This is a highly subjective opinion, but the one thing that worries about Trap is his the fact that he sees players like Whelan and McShane as important fixtures in his squad. I may well be wrong but it seems as if he views his job as getting the very best out of a limited group of players. This would reflect the view continually espoused by Brady in his punditing days that we simply do not have the wealth of creative talent that previous Ireland teams had at their disposal. I think we have more talent than Brady and perhaps Trap imagine, its just that a lot of it is languishing outside the current squad. McShane v Foley, Whelan v Garvan, accomodating Andy Reid, getting Stephen Ireland back etc, these are not self-contained debates about the merits of competing players but are about footballing values and maybe also our national self-image.

I think the hurlers on the ditch always like to see free flowing attacking football at international level. But I can see where Trap is coming from. Back to basic with Ireland, getting us hard to beat and maybe knicking a goal up the other end but get everybody working hard within a team unit.

If you can get a unit together at international level you are half way there.

yeah, and the thing is a lot of countries 'resort' to it. Even Bilics first aim was just to get Croatia hard to beat. all countries our size have to be the sum of their parts. ok thats the case for all countries but particulary ones the size of croatia, ireland, scotland.

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

Looks like McShane will get the nod, as he was the one brought on in Montenegro.

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Georgia. But Foley wasn't on the bench for that game. AFAIK the only position he plays is right back so he'd be down the list of choices for substitutes.

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Originally Posted by geysir

In reference to
'Kerr having a preference for Stephen Carr at right-back, opting either to use Finnan out of position or not at all'.
Finnan responded
: "That was a frustrating time for me. I am a right-back, full stop. But I never really played in my position under Brian. I didn't feel I got a fair crack of the whip."

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I think the relevance about this quote is that Finnan never felt comfortable playing at left-back and from my recollection of that period he didn't play that well when he was selected out of position. As a right-back I think he would have been entitled to be annoyed when Carr was consistently selected ahead of him.

We were lucky enough through the 90s to have the luxury of Denis Irwin (who could play comfortably on either side) along with reasonably good cover on both sides. I do think Trapp is less likely to play players out of position as he is a bit of a traditionalist.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Georgia. But Foley wasn't on the bench for that game. AFAIK the only position he plays is right back so he'd be down the list of choices for substitutes.

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Are you saying that Foley will be down the pecking order of substitutes because he is less versatile?

No Finnan again today.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Are you saying that Foley will be down the pecking order of substitutes because he is less versatile?

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right now I think the pecking order for the right full slot is Finnan, McShane, Kelly, Foley

Definitely think that Foley should be second to Finnan. He's been consistently brilliant for us this season and would fit right in - a new Dennis Irwin in the making. Love McShane's tenacity but he's simply too reckless. Throw Foley straight in and he'll do the job.