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Sorry lads but the whole concept of one division with no relegation is absurd to me. We spent plenty of years in the first so throwing that argument at me is a bit strange Spudulika and if you honestly think that barstoolers care less whether we have one, two or ten divisions well I find that incredible.
How many teams have been relegated form the Premier Division in the past 4 seasons Dong?
None? That's because of financial mismanagement at various clubs though.
To be honest. I thought there was 400 at most. Very poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green&whitearmy
I find the concept of no promotion/relegation odd, but when we have a sport that has no connection to reality we need to adapt, as it stands there is nothing to encourage clubs to try enter the league - if there was we'd have a system from junior football to LOI. Memories can be short Dong, and fortunes can change fast, so I'm surprised you were so dismissive of other clubs below the Premier. Barstoolers would care if there is a league worth taking notice of. All things fill into the next, a proper league system, proper facilities, proper coverage, proper promotion and some of them will get off their backsides and take a trip to the Showgies or Tallaght or Oriel. they might just hang on in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
How many will be relegated this season?Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
I'd hazard a guess at none there also.
Basically, what I'm saying is, your argument is pretty weak. :)
As I said, none but due to financial mismanagement.
That certainly doesn't negate my point. Relegation is part and parcel of how a proper league should function.
The general argument here seems to be "ah we can't get any decent crowds cos were stuck in a lower division playing poor teams with less fans"
Its a pretty fair arguement in fairness. For example let's say limerick and Longford bring between them 160 fans through the turnstiles of Terryland for salthill over the 4 games against limerick and Longford. In return both teams might get a maximum 10 SD fans back through the turnstiles not to mention the hit on local support as people can't be arsed to go out and see Limerick vs SD Galway. Then spread that out over a whole season. It hits clubs fairly bad and any interest that might have been formed is lost pretty fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
Were as lets say Sligo, St.Pats and Dundalk bring 150 to Limeirck. Limerick will most likely bring a similar support the other way.
You must have a very short memory dong, how long ago was it that Sligo were struggling to get out of the very same division? How many years did ye spend in the First remind me?Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
I find it extremely absurd that you don't see the whole point. You're one of these people acting as if the first division is completely necessary, yet it doesn't matter in the slightest what happens in it.
Completely shocked by the crowd down there tonight. Boxing or no boxing. It's a shame that a team pushing for promotion can only draw that sort of crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Lovely ground, in a good place, and it just looked awful with nobody in it.
There was a great atmosphere for the last 10 minutes of the game, but it was hard to keep an atmosphere going for 90 minutes with such a small crowd.
The 40 or so Harps fans down really enjoyed ourselves though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
Financial mismanagement aside (which is a symptom of greater woes brought on by desperation to stay at the top table - hence showing the graveyard that is the 1st Division), your point was that no relegation is absurd? Hmm, ok, now it's part and parcel of how a league should function, ok. Why? Some of the healthiest, most competitive and most attractive leagues in the world have no relegation or promotion, just election. Why does the LOI not benefit like those? Leagues around the world have relegation and promotion yet are dying on their @rses year on year, despite numbers coming through the gates and not solely down to financial mismanagement - so why run with something that won't work in Ireland? Clubs outside the LOI don't want in (for the large part), they don't want the expense, exposure and certainly the oversight/governance. But do we then go around in ever decreasing circles with tired old cliches and a few clubs clinging by their fingernails to the top table until they fall off?
I firmly believe there has to be a system of upward and downward movement of clubs in Ireland, but it won't happen, not in the next 20-30 years. So we need to work with what we have and 2 divisions with less than 20 teams to cover them in a tiny island like ours with scant public interest (the media interest is proportionate to - or even greater than - what comes through the gates) and a divide between "professional" and "amateur" clubs. One division, with play-offs to decide the champion, leave it running for 10 years, built a critical mass of support and gradually bring teams in. As the FAI said when Mons dropped out, they're trying to not chop and change each season, but now is the time to act. Be brave, be different and save the LOI.
Read my posts back and you will see I referenced our time in the first division Nigel.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
You obviously have a greater knowledge of worldwide leagues than myself Spudulika and I bow to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
I also agree that there has to be a system of upward and downward movement of clubs.
Clubs should be penalised in some way if they perform poorly over a season, that penalty is relegation to a lower division in my opinion.
When Galway could not be relegated a couple of seasons ago (due to financial wrongdoings of other clubs) they played out almost an entire season without winning a game as there was no motivation for the players or management. They were a terrible team but I do not accept that they were as bad as that and if they were faced with the prospect of relegation they would have got more out of themselves.
People talk about attendances but who wants to pay to see stuff like that?
I feel I've said enough on the matter now anyways. Obviously some people have a different idea of how a league system should work.
I agree that there should be 2 divisions
In 2008 Galway Utd got nearly 3,000 people to a must win game against Finn Harps, the following week we brought 600 fans to UCD. this would not have happened if there was no relegation
I agree with you about penalising clubs, though this can be done in ways other than relegation/promotion - even if it's financial. Galway United were a very, very odd case. What we saw on the surface was nothing compared to the internecine warfare going on in Galway itself. Thank goodness my own club don't...oh wait :cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
There has to be a way to make the LOI work without destroying the positive fabric of football in some places. Crowds won't come in to watch dross, however well a team might do. I, personally, would love to see a system where a club can rise from a local league and break into the top ranks. It won't happen in Ireland for a long, long time, but who knows.
There has to be an iron fist used by the FAI (in a sensible way) as without their goodwill clubs will lose out.
391 at Waterford United v Athlone as per extra time. Another poor attendance in the first division
Id honestly be shocked if there was 265 at it 191 sounds a lost closer to the mark, I was absolutely shocked when I arrived out of the club house 30 minutes before KO with only 3 people in the stand. The last home game (Manure XI) the stand was completely full 40 minutes before KO, where are they all now!
Funny I wondered the same myself, arriving into the ground I thought we got the kick-off time wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
I actually counted 210 myself just before kick-off, so 265 could well be right. A convenient night for an away crowd to travel one must say.
That is probably the most ridiculous suggestion I've ever heard. This is not the Rabo Direct League. Your suggestion totally contradicts the point of having a league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Excuse from the extratime girl made me smile to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
A man from a neighbouring county is on telly for nine minutes doing a completely different sport that's gammy to watch!!