I was just listening to Today FM and they played the Snow Patrol song 'Just Say Yes'.. An attempt to get around the media moratorium perhaps!? :eek:
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I was just listening to Today FM and they played the Snow Patrol song 'Just Say Yes'.. An attempt to get around the media moratorium perhaps!? :eek:
With the multi-party PR system we have, no party has to get 50%, they just have to get the most votes. If they don't get 83 seats, they have to form a coalition with someone else in order to get those numbers. The more they get, the stronger the chances of staying in power for the full term. With another twist in the system, if the combined numbers of FG and Labour exceed those of FF, it's they that get the prize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
FG gained back the 20 seats that they lost in 2002 at the last election, but Labour lost one. FF got more than them, 78-73, and so got to form the government.
Back on-topic....
It's 17 of them lodging the appeal. The UK can withdraw parliament's ratification of the treaty should the Conservatives win it, and it hasn't been ratified in every other country, and hold the referendum. Unfortunately, it's unlikely the Czechs can hold out long enough before the UK election is called next year, in order to trigger that referendum.Quote:
Originally Posted by eamo1
So you're hoping the Conservatives win?
Need to call in for a request then - 2 Unlimited?:)Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
Right lads, so it's D-Day. Today, you are voting on whether to approve or reject the ratification of the EU Lisbon Treaty by the Irish Government of the 28th Amendment to the Irish Constitution. You've read the arguments, but if you still haven't made up your mind, well here is mypost's final arguments on the treaty.
Among other things, If you are convinced by the economic arguments made by Yes campaigners, and approve the increase of this EU state's spending on it's military capabilities, you are free to vote with the Government on the Lisbon Treaty.
If you hold concerns over the nature of the role of the President of the European Council, if you wish the Irish Foreign Minister to decide our foreign policy rather than the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs, if you are sceptical of the decision by 26 EU heads of state to bypass their electorates in ratifying the Lisbon Treaty, if you are annoyed at having to vote again, and/or any other reasons, you are free to reject the EU Constitutional Lisbon Treaty.
When you go to the polls today, you have the future of 500 million citizens on your ballot paper. You can decide to obey the government or obey the will of the people in 3 earlier state referendums. Make your choice, and make it carefully. You are lucky to have the opportunity.
The official result of the referendum will be declared around 5pm tomorrow.
For me its a No vote all the way.
A few reasons................
Democracy.............We already voted No and it wasnt accepted. Not only that but Cowen and co went to Brussels to APOLOGISE to the EU for what the Irish electorate did.
We are asked to vote again on the same treaty.
If the politicans asked us to vote YEs the first time and nowclaim there has been some improvements this time, does that mean that they were all wrong to push a inferior treaty the first time round!!!!!?????
second reason............it would def mean the end of FF and Cowen
third reason............people in Europe are watching us, esp in the UK........fingers crossed we wont embaress ourselves:(
I have already voted yes.
There have been many good reasons to vote yes, I haven't seen the No side make a single one of any great importance that stood up to scrutiny. To me the No campaign has been based around political opportunism, untruths and downright paranoia.
sorry to go OT, but i registered to vote earlier in the year in galway (moving it from donegal) and got a letter confirming it was done. but no voting card arrived in this week. who or where should I aim my annoyance? Galway co co? I know it will do no good, but it will make me feel better :D
Agree entirely with your assessment of the No campaign - but respectfully suggest that in this case, that it is unwise to base a voting intention on the relative quality of the 2 campaigns - both of which have been awfulQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
I didn't. I based it on what was actually in the treaty- essentially a clean-up of the EU way of working.
As for the yes side- they at least have the defence that they were fighting fire with fire this time having been blown away by the No side's misdirection previously.
Incidentally- I still think there is a fair chance that the No side will win.
FAO,you can still vote if you didnt get a voting card.If your name is on the register just bring your Passport or I.D and they will let you vote.
You dont need a voting card, just bring ID, as long as you go to the correct polling station where you are listed you'll be grand. I dont know where you might check out what your polling station is though, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by EAFC_rdfl
Possibly on a county council site? think I saw something about that...
Edit: http://www.checktheregister.ie/
Voting reported to be slow: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/.../breaking1.htm
Good news for the No side as their support is a lot more motivated.
According to local radio here in Galway turnout so far is above the national average of 11%.I'll vote this evening on my way to Terryland Pk:).
And Possibly out of work and therefore more apathetic?? Yes side will probably be in during the afternoon.Quote:
Voting reported to be slow: [COLOR=#005600]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/.../breaking1.htm[/COLOR]
Good news for the No side as their support is a lot more motivated.
I thought the opposite; that the No side will need big numbers to suceed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
cheers lads, should have asked yesterday, wont be back home this evening so would have been going voting first thing on the way to work
couldnt get a suitable value for the 'townland/street' box on checktheregister, and its compulsory to fill it in, even though my surname should nearly be enough to search on!
No has been behind in the polls. A small turnout usually suits a side like that, I think. Of course, the specifics are everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Voting is always slow during the workday. It does pick up in the evening. I haven't voted yet, but unless it was unavoidable, I would never vote in the morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
The morning votes provide the photo ops for the politicians and campaigners, although why it happens beats me. Everyone is aware how they'll vote.
Theres an awfull finality to today,like a death of a close relative etc.Ye just dont realise what ye've done and given up.Ye do now realise THATS IT,NO more referendums on ANYTHING,our own constitution now meaningless.The only people truly happy today are powerfull lobby groups and faceless beurecrats in the Euro parliment.My grandfather and great grandfather are turning in their graves today.:(:(.
Mypost recognises the outcome of the referendum.
Today is not a victory for the Irish people, it's a victory for fear and delusion from the Irish political establishment and the economic elite, who have made hundreds of thousands of people's lives misery in recent times, and will continue to do so. So offers of congratulations from them are hollow and meaningless.
I would like to thank the number of voters who stood up to the government and their cronies, and wanted to protect the hard won democracy and sacred constitution of our country, which is now redundant. Ireland therefore ceases to become a republic, and is now an EU Province forthwith, beholden entirely to the orders of Brussels and Frankfurt.
We lost today's battle, but history will show that we made the right call for Ireland and Europe.
Sanity has prevailed. Onwards and upwards.
mypost, talking about yourself in the third person is a first indicator of insanity.
Mr A, in here that's a troll, and you know it is. I'm not sure if it was you or someone else I warned about this before, but I won't do it again either way.
adam
A black day for democracy, and a dangerous one too. A lot of No voters stayed at home because, after what happened last time, they realised their vote for worthless. When there's this much anger against the establishment as a whole out there, and you prevent people from effecting change through democratic and constitutional means, you open Pandora's box.
(That's an end to my support of Europe btw, I've gone from a liberal federalist to a liberal isolationalist overnight. Now, where's me Punts?)
I still believe in a European confederation based on workers' rights and international solidarity, not one run for the benefit of corporations and the military-industrial complex.
Um, what? It was a referendum, how is that a bad day for democracy? How is only the pre-guarantees vote democratic but the post-guarantees one isn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
If anything, I believe the voters were scared into voting no the first time, and because this wasn't allowed to happen to the same extent this time a lot of people on the No side somehow feel that's unfair.
dahamsta- I feel that's a bit unfair but can see what you mean taking that post in isolation. Overall I feel this wasn't even one of the bigger EU treaties, basically just a bit of tidying up and stream-lining and I think I've made that pretty clear. In that context I think my post was a fair summation of what I was always likely to feel after a Yes vote.
Mr A, saying that "sanity has prevailed" is a smart-assed comment, and not a very clever one at that.
I'm not having a debate with you, I'm telling you: don't post that kind of crap in here again. Understand?
Fair enough.
2 reasons why today is a steaming example of how we do not live in a democracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Firstly, according to the Euro elites and the Prime Minister of the country, this treaty was fundamental to our recovery. He, and all of the corporate types managed to persuade 39% of the electorate to support them (67% win of 58% turnout). So, 60% of the Irish failed to support this.
Yes that includes people who for some daft reason did not vote - but let's acknowledge that only 39% of us voted yes. Yes that is our system but it is not democracy.
Secondly today when Cowan, Gormley et al tippied up at Government buildings to take the lap of honour let us examine:
Cowan Nobody ever went into a ballot box and elected him prime minister. Nobody ever voted for him in the knowdge he was Taoiseach
Gormley Sinn Fein out polled the Greens by 50% in the election yet for some reason he is a powerful cabinet member
Harney Even less people voted for the PD's - and anybody who did voted for them thinking McDowell was the leader
Martin I will give you Martin - at least people voted for him knowing he was cabinet material
Roche Mother of god
So yes that is our system - we do not elect a government - we elect a set of individuals who decide who gets to be in government
Yes it is our system but please don't pretend that it is democracy
I don't see how that's really relevant to today though. Unless you make voting compulsory you won't get everyone to vote, and the fact is that a large majority of those who did voted yes. In fact a lot more voted yes this time than voted no last time- so this is actually more democratic on that score.
I agree with you - maybe I said it badly - I am trying to get to a place where we collectively re-assess what we mean by democracy
It fundamentally galls me that Ireland and the UK have unelected leaders. It galls me that we have said no to Europe twice yet that is taken only as an opening offer. It galls me that the political establishment got 2 NO votes in France and Holland and in order to change the rules they all met in Lisbon, changed the name and therefore created a structure that did not require referenda
All of this was carried out "democratically" based on the rules and systems that we have in place - and todays vote is a resounding result and was carried out legitimately
What I am saying is that "we the people" should not accept the c**p we get from our "leaders", many of whom were not elected to the positions they hold. We need to re-claim the electoral process.
Who elected Pat Cox to anything in the last 15 years ? On the flip side, nobody elected Ganley - but he stood and got a substantial vote - but did not get elected. He did not get elected so he holds no office - that is the way it is supposed to work
Now I am not suggesting that every mid management person in the government architecture needs to be elected - but people with key influence need to be elected - with 2 examples being the President and Foreign Minister of the EU
.....which brings us back to today......
I am not seething at todays result - which is legitimate and resounding - I am seething that the people accept this utterly deformed system of "democracy"
It was used once in one sentence, that best suited it imo. I won't use it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Some of the comments of the victorious Yes side are a bit hard to take.
The same people that were telling us that the only difference between Ireland and Iceland is one letter and that Ireland faced years in the wilderness with massive job loses, if we didn't vote Yes, are now claiming that the reason people now voted Yes was because they were more enlightened this time round and understood the issues.
UKIP condemn the poll as 'corrupt' and 'comparable to Zimbabwe or Afghanistan'
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking34.htm
so where is my new job gonna be so,
how long will it take for these jobs to appear,
in sweden, denmark, germany, france and polandQuote:
Originally Posted by don ramo
well as soon as pfizers have there plant in spain built, you can head over there,Quote:
how long will it take for these jobs to appear,
hope everyone has there passports up to date lads, casue the celtic tiger is already a pussy cat, now its on death row, :mad:
Poppycock. 42% of the electorate 'voted' that they didn't care what the outcome was. That the electorate is that disinterested is awful, but it doesn't make the vote any less democratic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
I kind of agree, but I've never seen a convincing alternative. The US system of the two dominant parties each putting one candidate forward (other candidates are effectively irrelevant) is hardly better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
That's an interesting conversation you're having with yourself there don ramo. You're aware of our single account rule, yes?