I think it’s time to call the Stephen Kenny era as Republic of Ireland Manager to an end ~ ~ I suppose the question is, can we get anyone better ?
Printable View
I think it’s time to call the Stephen Kenny era as Republic of Ireland Manager to an end ~ ~ I suppose the question is, can we get anyone better ?
Paul Daniels?!Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
He has disappeared, permanently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Daniels or Hourihane?!Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Where’s Houdini when you need him ? Can’t find him of course ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Phil Daniels might get some fight into the side...
Don't have to twist anything. We won tonight did we not?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
You're the one trying to twist information. This is a league format. Nothing is decided on aggregate. We got 7 points and finished 3rd. Bog standard stuff.
No one is trying to argue everything is perfect and that SK doesn't have issues but he deserves the rest of this campaign / the Euro quals (whatever way you want to swing it) as any manger should get a reasonable amount of time.
Some of the criticism he's getting is very vitriolic. Damien Delaney was practically spitting on VM2 just now despite starting his rant by saying it's a results business.
I was disappointed with the performance tonight especially from such a dominant position and similar mistakes early in the next campaign will be the finish of this regime.
I think it's time to draw the Kenny era to a close. There has been some improvement over the last few rounds of games, but it's still not nearly good enough. Every time you think we're starting to get somewhere there's a shocking performance in the next game.
We got the result tonight, but that shouldn't fool anyone. That was really bad.
You honestly think that performance tonight was acceptable? 70 minutes labouring to breakdown a poor side who insisted on giving us the ball every time they got it, but the same old issues of a lack of creativity nearly shot us in the foot again. And it was hardly the first poor performance of the campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Do you not think that's going to get us caught out against better teams? Such as, say, Scotland last week. Or even worse teams, like Armenia, Azerbaijan and Luxembourg have shown? Is there really much confidence that a fourth campaign under Kenny will go much different to the other three? Does he deserve the Euros? I don't think he does.
But it's ok, because you've picked some highly selective stats (ignoring the fourth seeds in the six-team groups for some reason) to show that Luxembourg aren't a bad team. Now when "Luxembourg are a good team" is your argument, you know you're in trouble.
I havent chosen highly selective stats to show Luxembourg arent a bad team, I've proven that Luxembourg were not the worst team in Pot 4 at the WCQ thus disputing that we were "Lucky" to draw them which was the argument put forth. In a previous post I said the Luxembourg result was a "disaster" (exact word)Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Tonight wasn't great but my memory is still sullied by,for example a 90th min goal , to beat Gibraltar 2-0 or the shocker away in Georgia under our last manager. These performances were worse than anything SK has thrown up, Lux home maybe aside.
Tonight we were 2-0 up and while not pulling up trees I think we were doing enough to see out the game comfortably. You'll find no one who will defend what went on from min 70 to 72, not even SK I'd imagine. No doubt he'll be lambasted for accentuating the positives like every other manger in football history but I guess he'll just have to put up with that.
Repeating myself again but these types of performances / mistakes will be a death knell for our chances next March , no one is disputing that either.
I do think he deserves tremendous credit for bringing through the young players he has. He was brave to do that, and we will hopefully be reaping the benefits of that bravery for years to come. He's been given a fair crack of the whip, but it's the same basic failings over and over again. It's time someone else was given a go at it.
Nope, looks like you deleted it yourself, possibly accidentally.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
yep apologies i think when you hit back on the phone it might delete.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I've been observing Kenny's interviews a while now. He was never this bad at Dundalk.
His media talks day before game, his pregame interviews and post game interviews are all very different. I think his post game interviews gives great insight into what's going on in his head. It's not a man measured and controlled. He's got 10s of things circling in his head,a fear of saying the wrong thing , and a worry for upsetting or blaming any players that he can't formulate a coherent sentence nevermind listen long enough to the question being asked.
And I think that shows how his mind works in game and his inability to manage and control the situation at hand as it presents itself during the game. I really don't see how he can get better than this other than perhaps 5 hand picked minnows where we guarantee wins if that's even possible.
Kenny's kids is never more apt, it will be a terrible loss if/when he's no longer manager the FAI lose him completely as he's clearly proven he's good spotting and bringing through young lads. I don't want it to go the same way as Kerr did.
It randomly happens you have to be careful that the selected radio button isn't on delete when you editQuote:
Originally Posted by zero
To be fair that old chestnut hasn't been pulled out in a long while here. Maybe cos most who would use it are nowhere to be seen. Our possession was atrocious against Scotland!Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Paul still hasn't learned how to use the multi quote button.
For me is, get rid of him, take The improvements but as someone wrote if he can't beat Armenia imagine with the big boys. 2nd half with Scotland was unbearable. Bring Bielsa he knows it
For all the shouting and roaring.. we finished where we were supposed to finish.. 3rd
We were third seeds going in.. and finished third
We're among teams of similar ability
Beat Scotland who are now an A side
Drew and lost narrowly to Ukraine..
Beat and lost to Armenia
Apart from the loss to Armenia, we played a par round
Just realized that our attacking prowess this summer has basically amounted to: corners, the mercurial genius of Michael Obafemi and one foray forward by Nathan Collins - not exactly what we were told we'd be getting with Stephen Kenny
And a couple of answers to the question of who to replace Kenny with: if cost is a real factor, Jim Goodwin; if we can spare a bit (or get Harry Arter to put in a good word for us), Scott Parker
One poster had previously said that there was a break clause in his contract
Do we have any confirmation of that?
(Don't think the fai will action it anyway)
The post-nations league exit clause was widely reported at the time and was confirmed by Jonathan Hill.
https://punditarena.com/football/and...enny-contract/
https://extra.ie/2022/03/11/sport/so...ct-exit-clause
Ok thanks for that
If they keep him we simply are not going to Germany.. way too many poor results with the odd very good one doesn't butter the turnips.
Is there a list of available managers ?
You've changed your tune since last week!!😀
I don't buy that at all, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
We lost to Ukraine's second string. We needed a last-minute penalty to beat Armenia at home, having completely lost the plot in the last 20 minutes. The defeat out there was an appalling result when you look at how Scotland and Ukraine breezed past them home and away; you can't gloss over it by saying "Apart from the loss to Armenia...". Scotland now being an A side is irrelevant - someone was going to win the group. Wales got one point in Division A this time and I expect Scotland to do about as well (Austria and the Czechs were also relegated but with four points, and Hungary got 10 points and nearly made the finals)
And at the end, we were nowhere near beating our seeding for the third campaign in a row, which is a worry. So well done us on finishing ahead of a Bulgaria side in freefall, Luxembourg/Azerbaijan, and now Armenia. And that's it.
The bigger picture for me is that 21 competitive games in, we're still far too capable of delivering the same Groundhog Day performance - start off lively, lose our way, show no creativity, and be as likely to score from a corner as anything else. Even the two Obafemi goals - brilliant as they were - were out of nothing and not the result of decent approach play. The kind of goals we lament when Armenia score against us because sure they never looked like scoring and then out of the blue we're 1-0 down and don't feel we deserve to be. Also a bit worried that we've conceded four times in the last two games when we were always strong defensively.
Yes, there's issues with the squad, but I don't think Kenny can completely hide behind that. If that break clause is there as reported, I think there has to be a genuine discussion now about activating it.
It's a results business
I think Kenny shows his lack of game awareness through his substitutions, but it looks to me like the current crop of players are playing for him, so I think it goes back to player quality and not management quality.
He needs to get rid of hourihane,brady and hendrick and reluctantly probably mcclean as well as I think they drag everyone else down with their lack of quality. I dont think Kenny is a forceful enough presence but I'm not sure if s? replace him that the replacement would do any better.
He will be fired if the euro qualifiers start badly, but that would still give his replacement an excuse of needing 18 months to bed in their "football philosophy" and were back to square 1..
Me ? I've never liked himQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I'm not confident the fai will get rid of him though
So do they review his contract and not pay him off if dissatisfied? Otherwise its not a clause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
not sure how you watch last night and conclude brady must be axed. he has a place in the squad. hourihane hasnt done anything of note, ever, for ireland. i still have nightmares about his performance against andorra. kennys hands were tied with the 21s campaign. I dont think theres any midfielders down there who'll make us qualification certs but there should be some that are at least as good as/better than hourihane so lets get them in and see what they are like.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
For me the main question to ask of an international manager is whether or not they are consistently getting the most out of the pool of players at their disposal. You can't expect any more than that, and shouldn't expect any less, not after a bedding in period anyway.
I dont think Kenny is doing that. On the good days, the results after which people talk about 'turning a corner' and 'green shoots' and the like, I'd say he is getting the best out of his players, or very close to it. But we celebrated a dominant away win in Azerbaijan like it was something special, when it really wasn't - it was a set of players comfortably defeating a weaker set of players. We should be winning those.
Unfortunately, I think that under Kenny, the number of matches in which we have had poorer performances and/or results than we should have against the opposition in question considering the players at his disposal is clearly a greater number that those matches in which we've delivered a performance and/or result that was impressive given the players at his disposal.
The same mistakes being made over and again. How many goals have we conceded from long range strikes now under Kenny? This isn't simply down to bad luck as his advocates would have it . They aren't 'flukes' that have simply 'come out of nowhere'. This has been a consistent feature of Kenny's time in charge
Kenny's in-game management, inability to react to events on the pitch and timing and choice of substitutes have always seemed questionable to me.
As others have said, Hourihane shouldn't have been in the squad, much less on the pitch.
His drop down to League One should have marked the natural end-point of his Ireland career. His career is clearly in precipitous decline; his having gone in successive seasons from playing in the PL with Villa, to playing regularly in the Championship Swansea, to being a bit-part Championship player at Sheffield Utd, to dropping to the third tier this season. Why can't Kenny recognise this?
Smallbone and Sykes are playing regularly in the Championship. McGrath's back playing regularly. Coventry's in and around the West Ham first team and has a very good loan spell at MK last season. Jack Taylor's playing at the same level as Hourihane and is far more mobile. Manning can play there. So it's not as if Kenny doesn't have options. Even moving Brady into midfield and bringing on McClean would have been a better move.
Basically yes. It means they can cancel the contract before the Euro groups start. Would either be no payoff, or a small severance amount that would be far less than what he would have got if he stayed on for the groups, depending on the wording of the signed contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
While we obviously can't know the exact details in the contract, it's clear from the reports and Hill's comments that Kenny's side rallied against this being included, which is why the contract talks dragged on for so long. But Hill has subsequently confirmed that it's in there, which means the FAI won out in the negotiations and Kenny had to accept the clause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
take smallbone from the 21s? mcgrath is playing at midtable spl side just a grade up from loi, regardless hes not an 8 so no thank you. coventry again is a key 21 player. hourihane is poor and last night should spell the end but kenny didnt have a whole pile in reserve. remains to be seen what a few of the 21s can do, i assume they get a chance in november. i wouldnt hold out much hope that they'll move the needle for us
I agree with the point about substitutions. Weird and illogical decisions have been feature of his reign. It's difficult not to think that he's prone to overthinking things under the pressure of a game as it's happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
My view is a that if they sacked him today his compenstation would be very small if not actually nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Thats usually how it would work i guess
Why not push collins into the holding role last night, bring duffy on take off molumby. Something a bit different and a bit innovative. To me it made sense given how far up the pitch collins was playing anyway. Whats he doing up there? he did the same against scotland. Feels like hes an attacking midfielder trapped inside a Centre backs body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
I mentioned this last night, I dont even think its even overthinking things - i mean he is - but he is just not in control of the situation. He looks all meek on the sideline.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
I've defended Hourihane (mildly) on here before but I think you're definitely right about the drop in division being a natural end alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
But the others - McGrath isn't good enough and isn't the same player as Hourihane anyway (as Jd has said). Coventry was recalled from his Championship loan last year and dropped a division; I think it's too early for him. Sykes - again, League One. Smallbone - has only played a handful of games.
I know you're putting them across as alternatives, not panaceas, but still - meh. I see players like Knight, Parrott and Molumby getting stick for recent games; they're still playing at a low level and maybe not becoming the players we once hyped them up to be, and I don't think adding more players of that level is going to help much.
Again, I know you're just suggesting alternatives, but they're not massively appealing to be honest.
The long range strikes issue comes down to Kenny's single biggest failing of his time in charge - his regular failure to adequately resource his midfield, especially against lower seeded teams.
It had been better recently, because Cullen and Molumby have plugged that hole well and we have had Knight in front of them as well. But as soon as one or both of them become unavailable Kenny goes back to the same mistakes of the previously tried and failed - Hourihane, Hendrick and Browne. Hourihane is so bad that having him in a deep midfield position is as bad as having nobody there, Hendrick drifts out of position constantly and tries to play a passing game that he's not consistently good enough at, Browne can pop up with a goal now and then but he's a liability further back as we have seen.
Kenny has had two years to resource this area and hasn't. He could have brought Coventry in - he's not brilliant but he'd sit in position and fill the hole. So would James McCarthy to be honest and he'd probably appreciate the minutes on the pitch if he's anyways fit. If he was back there last night instead of Hourihane that mess wouldn't have happened. Others have mentioned Taylor and Sykes who haven't been given a chance.
We're not talking about these players as first team regulars - just lads that can fill a hole when needed like last night, a country with a playing pool our size needs those players as well - exactly so we don't end up with Hourihane on the pitch again.
For whatever reason Kenny can't see this. I think it's because he just doesn't have it. He does lots of things well off the field but he doesn't read the game well at all - and doesn't seem to have any in-game management ability. That's why we won't be qualifying for Germany if he is allowed to continue.
Couple of things here, its difficult on the phone to read, as you go in order and then quote on them you cant see what youre quoting too - i mostly use foot on the phone now . Secondly i hate reading multi quoted posts some posters in bygones really liked their opinions and reading their own posts so this became a trademark that turned me off the users pretty quickly. Another example RAM ramming his point home to stu with multi quotes i just skipped by too much reading especially on a phone - and i like both posters saying all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Squash and merge function on foot.ie tets? Just checkbox the posts, submit and youre done.