FWIW I wish we didn't have to play in the Setanta. It's hardly a wonderful reward...
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FWIW I wish we didn't have to play in the Setanta. It's hardly a wonderful reward...
moneys good! someone remind this man there is a recession happening:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Old Chinese proverb say "Ignore man who support 5 teams, he talk through back passage".Quote:
Originally Posted by Acornvilla
Bloody disgrace if they are allowed to continue in the Setanta Cup, the FAI really haven't covered themselves in glory once again.
P.S. Derry are bombarding our young promising players with phone calls and offers of much bigger money than they are on at Harps. We purely can not compete with their wage offers and it makes me sick to my stomach.
Kenny wouldn't have even looked twice at these players at the start of last season.
Again the clubs that try to pay off their debts suffer :mad:
Tapping up? Not an auspicious start to this, "we won't make the same mistakes as the last lot" club, is it? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy
A home game to come against Linfield certainly represents a reward since you'll probably pack out the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Getting out of the vast majority of your debts (all except the ones owed to football clubs and maybe the season tickets it would seem) in return for relegation represents a deal that the vast majority of clubs would kill for, so it does seem that DCFC's actions are being rewarded rather than sanctioned. One wonders how the FAI can take a strong line with CCFC after that.
Mr P- don't think it would count as tapping up in terms of the rules in this case as the players would only have been on amateur contracts.
I'll say it again, rewarded for not investing in infrastructure!
why so sir? the town comes first is it a crime to take an intrest in other leagues for me following a few teams makes football more intresting..,Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Dont tell me the new derry wouldnt mind a few extra pound for their troubles?
The point is that most people (including Derry fans?) are too sure if "they" are the same Derry as now. tiktok certainly doesn't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Really?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
So the vast majority of clubs (i.e. their directors, as thats what we are talking about here) would prefer to
1) go through a liquidation process
2) be disbarred from being a registered director of all their business interests, possibly for life
3) have personal guarantees be taken up and pursued individually by banks, revenue and other creditors
all so a new club they can have no legal involvement in can start again in what could well be the lowest division next season.
Get a grip ffs. Internet-forum-paranoid-delusional-conspiracy-theory-nonsense.
There's a lot more to a club than just its directors. And from a club point of view what I said was entirely accurate. Also I think a lot more people than just the directors knew exactly what was going on. Certainly this wasn't intended, but DCFC seem to be more than landing on their feet with the former board (albeit deservedly) being the patsys.
And have points 2 and 3 that you mentioned actually happened? And it's already been clarified that the A championship would continue. Now why do you get to leapfrog over it?
In any case, isn't one of the key aspects of licensing that it's meant to prevent clubs from walking away from their debt, reforming and continuing on their merry way? If you're the same club in Setanta cup terms why aren't you the same club that went into administration and hence get a points deduction?
I'm not blaming the people involved with the new DCFC for the way things seem to be panning out, obviously they'll take whatever they can get, but the FAI seem to be making a horrendous balls of this and sending a terrible message.
I think you should check the competition regulations. You will find that there are FAI attached compliances required for entry.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
From a legal perspective there really isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Again, from a company law perspective and a licensing perspective thats irrelevant. Morally, I tend to agree, although I'd disagree that "a lot more people" knew. At the Trust meeting last night the new Board articulated the difficulty they are having starting from scratch as they still don't know with any great detail what was going on last year with budgets, legal filings etc. Probably more relevant, the FAI in their infinite wisdom effectively absolved the players and manager of blame. I don't necessarily agree, but there appeared no appetite to pursue them from the FAI and thats not our fault as fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Not as yet, but the reality is that we are domiciled in a jurisdiction where company law and fitness and probity of directors and the body corporate is taken a lot more seriously than the in the Republic. Take something like the Rovers situation with the [allegedly] tippexed accounts. What were the consequences of this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
I don't think that necessarily means it's the same Derry though. Even One Red Army is not, or was not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
(hyperlink not working - http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p...postcount=1769 )
If it is, then they can be allowed to play in the Setanta Cup, but they should be getting hit with a pretty hefty points deduction, shouldn't they?
If it's not, they shouldn't be allowed to play in the Setanta Cup, and they should be entering the A-league, shouldn't they?
ireland and especially the FAI donse'nt work like that:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Maybe you know more than I do about the mechanics of the Setanta cup, but if (and it is 'if')the current Derry city are essentially a new club (legally at least), by what right do they take the place of a now-defunct club?Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Does the new company mean that we are a new club? Especially if the trading name Derry City FC is transferred/sold to the new company?
Thats the bit I can't get my head around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I have no idea. I don't think anybody on this site knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfc_1928
All fair points, but none of it particularly relevant to the FAI and their handling of the situation. They've repeatedly made the point that DCFC were playing according to a different set of rules to everyone else and this situation was unacceptable, yet they then proceed to leapfrog the new entity into the first division and seem to have no intention of applying the rules relating to clubs entering administration or examinership.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
To me the new Derry City should either be in the A-league (because they're new) or else in D1 with a points deduction (because they're not really new and have been in administration).
Two questions:Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfc_1928
1. Has the trading name 'Derry City FC' been transferred or sold to the new company yet?
2. If not, under what name have the 'new-Derry City' applied for a First Division licence?
"Derry City 2".Quote:
Originally Posted by harps1954
Derry City 1 was already tried but the application came in blank.
If that is the case, I'd expect Derry to be facing a pretty hefty points deduction come the start of next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Most of those players would be out of contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
'Tapping up' is a fairly retarded football-centric concept in the first place. Imagine no one could approach you about a job without your current boss's permission? Ridiculous!
Quote:
Originally Posted by harps1954
Unfortunately this is yet another example of the FAI making things up as they go along. while well intentioned (nobody wants to see Derry ouside football) the continuing failure to adhere to thier own rules has led to a hotch potch of half rules/regulations that lead to the current chaotic situation. I am half waiting for the FAI to say "we are going easy on Derry this time but if it happens again................."
That wasn't the point I responded to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
You intimated Derry had taken the easy way out and that if given the chance other clubs would follow suit. I think thats nonsense, as the personal consequences can be immense.
Your point about the FAI is a separate issue and I'm not going to defend their handling of the affair. I firmly believed that just like with Limerick and some other clubs, the FAI knew the end game they wanted and fitted the rules around achieving that.
Spot on. I'd imagine that the rule book isn't detailed enough that some fudgey areas can't be found.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
That said, I'm truly wondering how Derry will manage to both play in Div 1 and avoid a points deduction.
That will have to be some top class fudge.
It's claimed on the Muckers forum that the Dungannon Debt is now settled
http://www.derrycitychat.com/forum/v...=unread#unread
Well actually, No, it's not because in all those cases, the holding company which owned the club emerged successfully from Examinership. CCIFL , which was in examinership in 2008 have been the holding company for CCFC since the Brian Lennox era. The holding company of Derry City is not being taken through examinership by any group, a separate new entity is being established.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
The existing FAI contract [which is torn up anyway] and membership can only be transferred to a new entity if that entity fully absorbs all the debts of the previous owning entity. If New/Cherry/Continuity DCFC was able to absorb the debts, there'd have been no need to wind up the old company.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfc_1928
You can certainly buy the trading name and continue as the old club and good luck to you, but from the perspective of licencing, participation agreements, membership of the FAI, contracts with the association you are a new club and Prize money from the previous entity, European places, Setanta Cup places etc., etc., cannot be carried on.
Avoiding a situation where clubs could spend beyond their means, wind it up and start again as a new holding company is exactly why licencing was established.
"They" is not the "Derry City FC Ltd" who want to step into their shoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Care to point me to where Wellvan has been wound up?Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Seems daft on Dungannon's part to settle for less than full payment, surely they knew that DCFC needed the debt settled to get a D1 license?
And Dungannon also knew no license for DCFC meant no money at all.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Derry not out of woods yet - Linfield and Cliftonville AT LEAST to settle with yet.
Surely the debt owed to Linfield is a different kettle of fish all together. It's not like its an unpaid bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by refjohn
It was pure theft. They sold tickets on our behalf to DCFC supporters and then instead of giving the money straight to Linfield they decided to stick it in their own pockets. It was never DCFCs money in the first place
Could you imagine if I went around the grounds collecting for Charity and went 'f**k it, I've a few debts, I'll use this money to pay it off'. It is the same principle, it's not my money and it's theft.
I hope people don't take this personally, because I'm not for a second blaming any supporters of DCFC, they cannot help that Parasites got controll of their club and run it into the ground whilst sullying the name of Derry City.
Um...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
Surely it's exactly like an unpaid bill.
I stand to be corrected but in your example surely it would depend on how you collected the money.
If you used an open bucket, and kept the money for yourself then you've gained that money fraudulently.
If it was a locked tin, then you've stolen it and damaged property.
If you 'borrowed' it with the intention of paying it back... :o
No, its a debt, just like all the other unsecured debts (albeit the "footballing" debts seems to have gotten some bizarre semi-preferred status which certaintly wouldn't stand up in court).Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
Whether the directors were trading wrecklessly, is, IMO, a very valid question to ask.
I agree 100% on that - they had cash in their hand which I was personally told on the Friday was to be handed to Linfield on Saturday - hence the reason no tickets were to be on sale on the Saturday morning. I even posted on your Forum my disgust at being unable to get a ticket given then only had to pack up at 1pm or 2pm for a 5pm kickoff in Belfast and could still hand over the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
In hind sight I would be tempted to believe that when Derry made a last minute decision to sell tickets on the Saturday it wasnt to facilitate fans and get Linfield extra revenue....
At least Linfield have a chance to get their own back and withhold monies for the return leg (assuming the stories about DCFC in one guise or another still being in Setanta are true) - however any settlement along those lines would probably see it being based on Linfield getting (a) more tickets than they have had for previous ties and (b) a guarantee on the money being paid if a shortfall if your fans vote with their feet and dont attend (I wouldnt blame them for many reason)
Derry City FC Limited need Linfield (and Cliftonville) to agree to something - partial payment, payment plan, tickets in lieu of payment depending on circumstance if their is any chance of us having a team to support next season.
I think the amount Dungannon were offered was too much for a small club to sniff at and considerably more than if Derry don't get a license and go to the walls in every way. What could the Dungannon board do - the alleged amounts will go a long way in covering their expenses. Linfield and Cliftonville are seemingly owed less and could gamble on all or nothing......
The saga on Foyleside continues..... At least the Derry Journal worth waiting for these days to see the latest twist in the soap opera.
I can assure you that "most" City fans see no difference between the club new and old. It's all DCFC. Different Directors and trading entities, same club.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
And the Setanta was an invitational competition. It's up to Setanta whether to leave us in it or not.
Please outline the horde of people beyond the Directors who you think knew what was going on ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Being kicked out of the league/dropped a division at best ; having all our players released as free agents ; having our reputation torn to shreds both locally and nationally ; still not even knowing if we'll be allowed to play next season. Yip - really landed on our feet there..... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Mod edit - use the multi-post, FFS.
And trolling removed.
Small price to pay for walking away from that amount of debt Steve. And all indications are that you'll be allowed to play next season, and not even at the bottom of the senior pyramid.
I'd take your arm off for a similar deal if it got rid of Harps debts.
If some of your fans had a fair idea what was going on, why would anyone believe that a lot more people round the club didn't know as well. Certainly Kenny and the players, even if they're all acting innocent now. Ever since the last set of Wellvan accounts a lot of people have been very suspicious.
Ah but, it didn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Besides, we Donegal folk don't need traffic lights to pick up women we do things the old fashioned and legal way, sorry about bringing the law into it, I know that's a forbidden word up about the Randywell.
As for Roundabouts, we don't need them, we just let the biggest tractors go first and drive over the top of Nordy reg cars in the way. ;)