Jack Grealish

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

It just seems like a consolation prize; like something someone would say out of appeasement. It's like he remembered that he is playing Intl. football for us so he better meet us halfway. That's what I get out of it.

I have never heard anything like that before. Someone supporting one senior national team and a different underage team..

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I think you're getting too hot and bothered by the whole thing quite frankly.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He was close to switching another time but changed his mind at the last moment.

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When was this?

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I think people are getting their hopes up if they think he's going to play for Ireland for sentimental reasons. I think he's going to do what's best for his career.

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Any decision he makes can be coloured by both types of reasons. It's not necessarily a case of either/or.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Not that I disagree with your broader point or genuinely care that much but where did you make this distinction from?

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That's Knockers' reading of two tweets from February 2012, recorded here on YBIG, but since deleted, seemingly: http://www.ybig.ie/forum/jack-greali...75.html#837975

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Originally Posted by Jack Grealish

Counting down the days to european championships , wouldnt miss it for NOTHING !! Im feeling it's irelands year lol :) !!

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Originally Posted by Jack Grealish

& btw peeps i mean u17 european championships lol :) not the senior one in the summer as I would prefer England to win that #Opinions

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Of course, just because he would have preferred England to win the senior Euros doesn't mean he had no interest in Ireland's fortunes, but everything is very much black-or-white with Knockers, so he refuses to acknowledge the possibility that Jack the "mercenary" might have any sentiment for Ireland at all.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I think it's a misconception among people that he played for Ireland ahead of England at any underage level. He was sent away from England trials at a young age ostensibly because he was sick and they didn't want him contaminating anyone. He was close to switching another time but changed his mind at the last moment. I remember an interview where he said he was playing for Ireland because he was playing with older kids at a more competitive level. Perhaps he is playing for Ireland underage because would not get selected/start for the same England age groups? Of course that would probably change now.

I've heard that the father would push him towards Ireland but I don't get any great sense of that really. He didn't seem that inclined for Jack to play for us in the Sunday Times piece.

I think they are all very invested in his career. The brother was his biggest cheerleader on VillaTalk and his father is his agent and goes to every match. I think people are getting their hopes up if they think he's going to play for Ireland for sentimental reasons. I think he's going to do what's best for his career.

But just look on the face of it. He said he supports the England national team. He said he supported the Ireland underage teams to appease us. He tweets about the England national team with more frequency. We are not his native country and we cannot offer him guaranteed qualification and the profile he would get with England. We are operating at a strict disadvantage here.

Best case scenario is he turns out to be not good enough for England but good enough for us. But England are not that good to begin with so.......

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What if Ireland qualified for the Euro's and England didn't?

How would that affect things :)

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Of course, just because he would have preferred England to win the senior Euros doesn't mean he had no interest in Ireland's fortunes, but everything is very much black-or-white with Knockers, so he refuses to acknowledge the possibility that Jack the "mercenary" might have any sentiment for Ireland at all.

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"Not that I loved Caesar less, but that I loved Rome more."

Still, Arsenal fans didn't love Caesar at all, not after the League Cup Final defeat to Luton. Made Eric Young in Wrexham look like Beckenbauer.

When did I ever say that he had no sentiment for Ireland or that he was a mercenary? When you accuse me of saying things like that and using such strong words it really does devalue your argument. He does have sentiment for Ireland. There are plenty of players that play for England who have sentiment for Ireland. What International football team you declare for is not an indicator of sentiment. There are plenty of England players who were a lot more Irish than past Ireland players. They played for England because it was their native country and they were good enough to play for England. I'd imagine Jack's decision might come down to something similar. And I politely have to disagree with commercial or financial interests being a valid reason in his decision of what country to play for. That should not have to come into a decision like this.

When you cut straight to the thick of it, there are similar motivations for Noble and Grealish yet one seems to be viewed with suspicion and another seems to be treated with kid gloves, and some of us condemn the former for being completely honest and transparent in his actions and statements yet patiently put up with the other's vagaries and indecisiveness.

"Any decision he makes can be coloured by both types of reasons. It's not necessarily a case of either/or."

Yes. That's why I prefixed my sentence with "I think"; because it's an opinion.

"When was this?"

" Jack's Done a complete U-Turn and decided to stick with ireland after me submitting his form back to England. yeahh i know im as clueless as you lot on this one but hes sticking with ireland for the near future for sure"

That was over three years ago now and we are still all eagerly waiting to see what country he declares for.....

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...al-aston-villa

Barry Glendenning on Grealishgate.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

When did I ever say that he had no sentiment for Ireland or that he was a mercenary? When you accuse me of saying things like that and using such strong words it really does devalue your argument. He does have sentiment for Ireland.

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You often claim that the only reason he's lining out for our under-21 side is because it's beneficial for his career at this present moment in time. In fact, you stated the following on this very page: "I think people are getting their hopes up if they think he's going to play for Ireland for sentimental reasons. I think he's going to do what's best for his career." How else should one interpret that?

You also often make out that he supports England, as if he supports only England, and feigns support for our under-age teams in order to keep us happy. How else should one interpret the following statements, also from this very page: "He said he supports the England national team. He said he supported the Ireland underage teams to appease us. "

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And I politely have to disagree with commercial or financial interests being a valid reason in his decision of what country to play for. That should not have to come into a decision like this.

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It's just a reality. I'd like if we lived in an ideal world too where football decisions weren't tantamount to business decisions, but it's naive to think all our England-born eligible players can be Kevin Kilbane.

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When you cut straight to the thick of it, there are similar motivations for Noble and Grealish yet one seems to be viewed with suspicion and another seems to be treated with kid gloves, and some of us condemn the former for being completely honest and transparent in his actions and statements yet patiently put up with the other's vagaries and indecisiveness.

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Noble has indicated no positive sentiment for Ireland whatsoever. Meanwhile, Jack Grealish has been representing us since the age of 14 and is very much in tune with his Irish heritage.

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"When was this?"

"Jack's Done a complete U-Turn and decided to stick with ireland after me submitting his form back to England. yeahh i know im as clueless as you lot on this one but hes sticking with ireland for the near future for sure"

That was over three years ago now and we are still all eagerly waiting to see what country he declares for.....

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Fair enough.

/ Certain things give me that impression.
/ I should have said it was my impression that he supports the Ireland U-17 team as a meeting of half way. I should make that more clear some times. I don't understand why someone who supports the England national team over the Ireland national team in the same tournament would want to play for Ireland above England. I cannot reconcile that. Folly of me.
/ Grealish is definitely more in touch with his roots than Noble but certain other aspects are very similar. And Noble was captain of his country at U-21 level, while it is unclear if Grealish was held in the same esteem by England up until 6-12 months ago. I think - and I base saying this on - something I read and I'm paraphrasing here... what was pivotal in Grealish's thinking in sticking with Ireland was that he was playing with/against younger kids - I believe he said something to this effect while explaining his decision. That begged a question with me.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I should have said it was my impression that he supports the Ireland U-17 team as a meeting of half way. I should make that more clear some times.

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You should. :p

It doesn't help when you state opinions in such a matter-of-fact manner, but at least you've acknowledged that.

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I think - and I base saying this on - something I read and I'm paraphrasing here... what was pivotal in Grealish's thinking in sticking with Ireland was that he was playing with/against younger kids - I believe he said something to this effect while explaining his decision. That begged a question with me.

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This is the quote to which you're referring:

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Originally Posted by Jack Grealish

The English FA met dad and I before this campaign started and told me where I'd be playing for them (their under 19s). We had already spoken to Noel (King) by that stage and thought, as I'd be with the under 21s, Ireland was the best place for me.

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It's not clear from that whether or not he would have switched to England had they offered him a place in their under-21 squad, so it would be unfair to reach such a conclusion.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

It's not clear from that whether or not he would have switched to England had they offered him a place in their under-21 squad, so it would be unfair to reach such a conclusion.

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But Danny, you're not gifted in the art of reading peoples' minds, reading between the lines or transforming yourself to be a fly on the wall while Jack and his dad have a chat with O'Neill, otherwise you would have the clarity of the gifted.

Lads lets cut down on the hype about a player that's done nothing in the game yet.

I think he will take the same route as Clark (Remember the hype about him on here??) and declare for the Irish senior set up once he realises he's not going to make the senior England set up.

Personally I don't want any player who has played under age football for England or any player who courts England and then comes to us once England aren't interested.

No, You have to be 100% committed to Ireland.

My heart is and has always been with Ireland.

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Originally Posted by the doc

Lads lets cut down on the hype about a player that's done nothing in the game yet.

I think he will take the same route as Clark (Remember the hype about him on here??) and declare for the Irish senior set up once he realises he's not going to make the senior England set up.

Personally I don't want any player who has played under age football for England or any player who courts England and then comes to us once England aren't interested.

No, You have to be 100% committed to Ireland.

My heart is and has always been with Ireland.

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I wonder how England would feel about playing a player who had played underage for Ireland?

Can I try and shed a little context on this whole argument that Jack having shown some support for England is such a bad thing.

Jack made his Ireland debut at the 2010 Tri Nations competition. That was held circa May 2010. At this point, Jack would have been a 14 year-old kid in England that would have surely been swept by World Cup fever. May I add, Ireland did not qualify for this World Cup.

So, before and after the 2010 World Cup, Jack re-affirmed his desire to represent us. At the age of 14, I'm sure the notion of pulling on the England jersey would make any kid burst with excitement at the prospect, if they were that way inclined. However, young Jack decided to go with the boys in green.

Please also bear in mind that Jack may feel inherently Irish and still support England. The nearest comparison I can find is my mate who has two Cork parents but has been born and reared in Kerry and supports the Kerry footballers. Why? Well, I'm sure one of the reasons is because there's something great about being a supporter and being surrounded by a communal environment of support for the same side.

Young Jack has spent his whole life surrounded by English people and the English media and the English hype. It's only natural that he'd support them.

But my mate still supports the Cork hurlers...

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

I wonder how England would feel about playing a player who had played underage for Ireland?

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I don't give a feck about what England think and neither should you.

I'd rather have a team of 100% committed players to Ireland than those who are using us as a second choice.

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Originally Posted by the doc

I'd rather have a team of 100% committed players to Ireland than those who are using us as a second choice.

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I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, once they've made their 'second choice.'

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Originally Posted by the doc

Lads lets cut down on the hype about a player that's done nothing in the game yet.

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Where's the hype? :confused:

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My heart is and has always been with Ireland.

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Who else might it have been with?

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Originally Posted by the doc

I'd rather have a team of 100% committed players to Ireland than those who are using us as a second choice.

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Grealish has played for us since the age of 14. He never played for anyone else before that.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Where's the hype? :confused:



Who else might it have been with?



Grealish has played for us since the age of 14. He never played for anyone else before that.

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Well Faye Rooney had Doc's heart until she recently gave him the arse and Doc, you didn't represent Ireland at underage level, why? Were you not 100% committed? :D

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Originally Posted by the doc

Lads lets cut down on the hype about a player that's done nothing in the game yet.

I think he will take the same route as Clark (Remember the hype about him on here??) and declare for the Irish senior set up once he realises he's not going to make the senior England set up.

Personally I don't want any player who has played under age football for England or any player who courts England and then comes to us once England aren't interested.

No, You have to be 100% committed to Ireland.

My heart is and has always been with Ireland.

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Sean, you know full well Clark committed to Ireland as soon as he was told he was allowed to.

Did that English lad John Greaveslish play for Aston Villa the other day?

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Originally Posted by the doc

Can't understand why there is no place for Preston's Sean St Ledger who is in outstanding form right now.
Strange indeed, spoke to a coach in the game who told me, that Kerr had been keen to get him into the set up when he was in charge and that many in the game rate him as a better player than McShane and Bruce.
Could be a big loss if Ireland don't play him soon as he is also eligible to play for the Northies too

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Ireland or nobody for the doc ....