20 Teams, 2 Divisions, 1 National League

So 67 clubs applied, but only 15 were considered suitable - and given that's not a full two divisions, they must have been prioritising licensing over numbers. Which is as you want it, but it's still not a great look. Lucan and St Francis the only top-tier LSL sides I think? UCC the only top-tier MSL side. And three sides from Donegal runs the risk of repeating the problems with Salthill/Mervue/Galway a couple of years ago (and Salthill/Mervue are both in too).

It does look like this is more of the same rather than a new pathway unfortunately.

Nearly all of the 15 have league of Ireland clubs in their general vicinity who they will never get close to matching support wise you’d imagine, even if any of them were to gain promotion(s)

My fear here would be this never really takes off and dies away like the A champ and we lose the likes of Mayo FC and CK United to LOI forever. Mayo FC would have been a great addition to the first division (no idea on facilities)

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Originally Posted by kksaints

https://www.fai.ie/latest/15-clubs-c...tional-league/

15 of the clubs announced. Looks like they still want a few more based on them reopening the applications.

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Also sources are hopeful that clubs based in the Offaly, Meath, Tipperary and Wicklow areas while Limerick may stilll be an option.

Interesting that Killarney Celtic have applied - fully capable of stepping up to the level based on their domestic record, but a number of their coaches and players have been involved with Kerry over the three First Division seasons, so could have another Galway/Mervue scenario if they get promoted.

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Originally Posted by nr637

Also sources are hopeful that clubs based in the Offaly, Meath, Tipperary and Wicklow areas while Limerick may stilll be an option.

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What sources?

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Originally Posted by outspoken

My fear here would be this never really takes off and dies away like the A champ and we lose the likes of Mayo FC and CK United to LOI forever.

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Very much so. This all feels very underwhelming given the time and effort it's taken to get to this point.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Very much so. This all feels very underwhelming given the time and effort it's taken to get to this point.

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It does. Though on the flip-side, it's good to see that the FAI is actually being strict about who should get in - and not just panicking and letting any 'aul applicants in for random reasons. We've come on a lot from how they used to do new entrants into the LOI FD.

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Originally Posted by culloty82

Interesting that Killarney Celtic have applied - fully capable of stepping up to the level based on their domestic record, but a number of their coaches and players have been involved with Kerry over the three First Division seasons, so could have another Galway/Mervue scenario if they get promoted.

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A good domestic record has not translated into a good record at provincial or national level to date though. Really hard to get my head around this one and how sustainable it will be in the long run. Other than UCC, nearly every away trip will be over 3-4 hours. Same for all the other provincial teams I guess. As for impact on Kerry FC, it can only be a positive in terms of raising standards, providing a feeder club etc.

Must say I’m very surprised at the tone of some of the commentary here and the almost universal glass half empty approach that seems to be taken to the news.

People often profess on this forum that they want a pyramid in Ireland all the way down to the grassroots and ultimately this is what it looks like. It will mean there are clubs in areas where there are other clubs but local nature means people who are likely to go to letterkenny rovers etc are not likely to have been going to Finn Harps anyway or may do both.

From existing clubs that have joined the league they all seem to be strong intermediate standard clubs which goes to the strength of the licensing criteria I presume. These are the clubs with the ambition again presumably to be playing in the LOI First Division and in my opinion it’s up to the existing clubs within that catchment area to up their game and compete in “elite sport” in Ireland.

On the financial side of it; the clubs here obviously believe that they can make it work especially within the framework of an amateur league at least in the beginning and it would be my expectation that the financial governance on the regulator side has improved significantly through painful experience since almost 15 years ago.

What it boils down to is that these are the first clubs through the door as a proof of concept for every ambition that is to follow. They have a right to give it a go, the expectation is that based on th status of the clubs and the framework of the league it’s not likely to be ruinous so im positive

Putting aside the specific teams, geography, etc. I think this a good day for Irish football.

A football pyramid has always been talked about and it's here now. It will find it's way and settle down, which could see a lot of change but just need to be given a chance bow.

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Originally Posted by redobit

Putting aside the specific teams, geography, etc. I think this a good day for Irish football.

A football pyramid has always been talked about and it's here now.

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Originally Posted by Roones26

Must say I’m very surprised at the tone of some of the commentary here and the almost universal glass half empty approach that seems to be taken to the news.

People often profess on this forum that they want a pyramid in Ireland all the way down to the grassroots and ultimately this is what it looks like.

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This isn't what a pyramid looks like though - that's the problem. This is just another level added onto an already failed system - the same as the A Championship. I think there's a big vote of "no interest" from the LSL and the MSL, which would be the strongest non-league areas and that's the biggest concern I think. We still have the problem Tralee faced in the A Championship days, that if they can't hack it or if the division folds, then they have no choice but to return to the bottom of their local pyramid. And we still have myriad separate local leagues which don't really help anyone other than those teams who like being big fishes in small ponds.

A pyramid solution would have seen the LSL come in as a Div 2 East, absorbing some of the other local leagues. What we have is very far from that (albeit a proper pyramid was never expected of course). It's much closer to franchise football.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

This isn't what a pyramid looks like though - that's the problem. This is just another level added onto an already failed system - the same as the A Championship. I think there's a big vote of "no interest" from the LSL and the MSL, which would be the strongest non-league areas and that's the biggest concern I think. We still have the problem Tralee faced in the A Championship days, that if they can't hack it or if the division folds, then they have no choice but to return to the bottom of their local pyramid. And we still have myriad separate local leagues which don't really help anyone other than those teams who like being big fishes in small ponds.

A pyramid solution would have seen the LSL come in as a Div 2 East, absorbing some of the other local leagues. What we have is very far from that (albeit a proper pyramid was never expected of course). It's much closer to franchise football.

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I think in fairness, some of this is a matter of perspective and some of this is a matter of process.

The way that the organisation is set up is in such a way that merging, absorbing or challenging the local league structures is so impossible that ultimately building down from above is the only politically palatable way to do it.

Fully accept that if the division folds it does nobody any good but the reverse is also true that if it is competitive and raises standards it makes this division and future ones more appealing.

67 clubs applied and 15 were chosen, who was rejected and who opted out and the process was so opaque I think speaking definitive about rejection or appeal of the division is unwise

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Originally Posted by Roones26

The way that the organisation is set up is in such a way that merging, absorbing or challenging the local league structures is so impossible that ultimately building down from above is the only politically palatable way to do it.

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That's fair - but that's where the lack of interest from LSL/MSL clubs is a concern. (I would be surprised if any of the 52 rejected clubs were top LSL/MSL sides, almost by definition)

You would have wanted to see some sort of move from LSL/MSL to LoI, but instead what we have is close to a repeat of the failed A Championship.

I don't mind new clubs joining and 15 is a lot in one way (more than has ever joined the LoI at one time before), but I think there's a deal to be cautious/skeptical about all the same.

Indeed, one would have thought Rockmount and Midleton would have been among the first to put their applications in here.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

What sources?


Very much so. This all feels very underwhelming given the time and effort it's taken to get to this point.

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I prefer to read the positive threads not some of the doom and gloom posys.

Good day for football and well done to the FAI!

Perhaps there is something to be said about the teams coming from areas not currently served by high standard intermediate football. Connacht Ulster Rest of Leinster Rest of Munster where there is more of a premium on getting higher standard game time

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Originally Posted by culloty82

Indeed, one would have thought Rockmount and Midleton would have been among the first to put their applications in here.

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Maybe some clubs just want to successful where they are and don't want to gamble with their current situation.

I also reckon some clubs will regret not taking this opportunity, as it is the best way to access the league profile format and over time the licence system application for clubs will only get harder as the structure develops.

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Originally Posted by legendz

Was only idly musing if Killarney Celtic would apply. Kerry FC is representative of all of Kerry. A club operating out of the KDL wouldn't change that. Currently there is obviously no pathway for clubs beyond the KDL. The National League does throw open the question - are there clubs who want to play at a higher level if a pathway allows?

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I was curious if Killarney would apply. I think they had friendlies against two LoI clubs last year. Killarney don't seem to see the Cork Munster Senior League as having been a route to take. If there are clubs in Limerick, Clare and Tipperary that think the same - Killarney's inclusion might be one for them to ponder.
So Klub Kildare aren't in and Newbridge are. Will be interested to see what happens there at youth level.
Are Galway and Donegal clubs a reflection of no Senior League route?
Was pessimistic about 10 clubs joining. Impressed by 15 on that basis, especially those without the Senior League option. Didn't see any mention of B teams. Might some join before the National League starts after all first teams are confirmed?
The Third Tier is a first step from the Pathways Plan. Whether it's the start of an integrated pyramid, time will tell.

Does anyone have an idea if Lucan or St Francis are likely to also keep a LSL side in addition to this team?