Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I think Daryl was playing most of his football out wide, for club and country then.

Didn't he set one up for Andy Keogh in that Serbia game?

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Yep. In that first game of Trap's. Keogh buried it and was picked forever after by Trap.

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Originally Posted by gastric

there is far too much garbage being portrayed as debate on here presently.

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Only presently?

Speaking of garbage, "presently" doesn't mean what you think it means. Although maybe you were pre-empting my contribution!

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Originally Posted by brine3

The match was a feast of lunging in left, right and centre into 50/50 tackles. Somebody was bound to break somebody's leg eventually. As it was, it was Taylor's boot connecting with Coleman's leg.

Sure, Taylor is responsible for that. But, on another day, with two different managers playing different football, it's possible that all 22 players would have left the pitch injury-free.

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So, if everything was different, then that tackle wouldn't have happened. Wow.
Taylor is responsible for his own actions, the manager didn't make that tackle. That's the end of the discussion.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Well if you don't want to engage me on the McCarthy point then you don't have to.

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I did engage you on it. I said I have no idea what O'Neill trying and failing to play an injured player has to do with Taylor snapping Coleman's leg in half.

Didn't Roy Keane Psyche everybody up for that match !

Has Roy any tactical ability or is it still back in the day when Roy could Psyche other people out of the game .

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

That's the end of the discussion.

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Right so.

Roy Keane is at tonight's top-of-the-table clash between Cork and Dundalk in Turners Cross. Would have liked to have seen Martin O'Neill there too as there are at least one or two players on show who might be worth international consideration. Paddy McEleney is definitely one. I'm pretty certain O'Neill is in the country at the minute as the provisional squad for the Moldova and Wales games is to be announced tomorrow (presumably in Dublin) and the FAI released a video of an interview with O'Neill earlier that seemed to have been conducted in one of the Aviva's dressing rooms.

O'Neill agrees contract extension: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status...88848131416064

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BREAKING: Martin O'Neill has agreed a contract extension and will continue as the Republic of Ireland manager for the EURO 2020 campaign!

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

O'Neill agrees contract extension: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status...88848131416064

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It's telling that only about two of the 50 tweets in response to that are positive. I dunno how I feel about it; underwhelmed and disheartened would probably be the best ways of describing it. Is anyone pleased with this news, especially as the campaign hasn't even concluded yet? Wait until we know if we've definitely qualified or not at least and then evaluate the best way forward.

Terrible decision and even worse timing. What happens if we lose to Moldova & Wales?

Timing is weird.

If we put in 2 dog **** performances then the FAI will look like a bunch of clowns.

Maybe they are hoping it will give everybody a lift? If we win both games then they'll look like an organisation that knows what it's doing. I've been happy with MO'N but last few performances have been very sterile. If that trend continues then I'd have my reservations. He needs to get a balance between the high intensity style of play we often revert to and an attempt to play football (Wes, Brady & Hendrick on the ball)

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Maybe they are hoping it will give everybody a lift?

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Not sure it's had the desired effect. I think most people are like "Ah, y'serious? :rolleyes:" rather than "Ah, brilliant! :D"

deadful decision by the FAI to give O'Neill and krusty keane the clown a contract extension.
Think it was mentioned elsewhere that in his time with Ireland MON has given precisely 0 players debuts in competitive games..:waiting:

the utter pish we have to watch is uncomfortable to cheer for.
we have no coleman at present, but we also have some utter dross getting their games

i think the increased home attendance is playing a big factor here. i'm not overly upset with the extension. the next tournament should be easier to qualify for and MON has no option but to freshen up the team with new players. he probably does deserve another campaign after france and coming reasonably close this time around, though it looks like ending in disappointment.

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Originally Posted by placid casual

deadful decision by the FAI to give O'Neill and krusty keane the clown a contract extension.
Think it was mentioned elsewhere that in his time with Ireland MON has given precisely 0 players debuts in competitive games..:waiting:

the utter pish we have to watch is uncomfortable to cheer for.
we have no coleman at present, but we also have some utter dross getting their games

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Why is that a problem?

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Not sure it's had the desired effect. I think most people are like "Ah, y'serious? :rolleyes:" rather than "Ah, brilliant! :D"

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He means those in and around the squad. You take everything literally Danny :)

But that's how i saw it too it's another delaney masterstroke, oh sure it shows how much faith we have in him and sure wont that get us over the line.

Yep POS is right I meant the squad itself.

We obviously aren't privy to the squad dynamic but I get the impression the players like and respect MON and RK. A lot of interviews speak very highly of them both. The players probably would prefer to see another 2 years with them at the helm and that will unquestionably have had an impact on the offer of a contract.

The other aspect is that they both have that x factor about them and can put bums on seats and generate interest in the build up to games. The apathy towards England over here at the moment is astounding. Nobody really gives a monkeys about the games. Souhgate is so beige it's rubbing off on their players and reflected in their performances and the crowd itself. If we went went for a less profile name I bet the FAI fear a similar sort of disillusionment on our side of the water. Results should be the most important thing but the FAI need to make some dough.

O ‘ Neill and Keane are under pressure to produce results in these two games .

If they don’t produce good results or at the very least good performances then they will be under pressure to do the ‘ right thing '

Lets say we perform badly I wouldn’t be surprised if O’Neill and Keane knew what the right thing is .

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Timing is weird.

If we put in 2 dog **** performances then the FAI will look like a bunch of clowns.

Maybe they are hoping it will give everybody a lift? If we win both games then they'll look like an organisation that knows what it's doing. I've been happy with MO'N but last few performances have been very sterile. If that trend continues then I'd have my reservations. He needs to get a balance between the high intensity style of play we often revert to and an attempt to play football (Wes, Brady & Hendrick on the ball)

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Timing is ideal to be honest IF the FAI Board decided that they wanted to keep MON irrespective of the results. If they left it until after the two games and we qualify (after play off), his standing goes up, as does his salary demands and his attraction to other Associations/clubs. If we don't qualify, so be it as they wanted MON to carry on. Whether people think he is the man to carry on is another issue. The Board thinks he is and therefore the timing is correct.

Terrible decision. Not at all surprised the FAI have done this. At least two more years of miserable and abysmal football ahead. This is the first Euro/World Cup campaign since 1974 where I haven't attended any of the games - so disappointed and disillusioned by O'Neill and Keane.

I don't really get why everyone is up in arms, I would rather O'Neill then someone who hasn't the slightest idea about our players going into Euro 2020
Also he has credit in the bank guys
Qualified for 2016, win against Germany world champions, win against Italy in the Euros, win away against Austria, win against Bosnia
I know it hasn't all been good and in fact some of it has been poor, but that's not bad. also we are not out of the world cup yet

I don't believe in change for the sake of change so in the absence of a compelling replacement I'm reasonably happy for him to continue. Though I've stated my unhappiness before with the whole culture around the marquee manager that Delaney has now brought into this.

"some of it has been poor" is an understatement mind. Unless we experience an improbable and utterly unpredictable change in form over the imminent 180 minutes of competetive football then 2017 -that is the entire year -has been an unqualified (no puns) collapse.

With 2 games to go and qualification still up in the balance (to put it optimistically), it's hard to imagine that the management team have met any targets or benchmarks that applied, unless those benchmarks were extremely generous.

'FAI may have been too quick to hand Martin O’Neill new contract': https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...-new-contract/

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Originally Posted by Neil O'Riordan

If he manages a top-two finish — irrespective of whether it is enough to reach a play-off — there is a strong case for him to be kept on but, right now, it’s too premature to make an assessment of the campaign. If the FAI felt they had to warn off suitors, its stance might make more sense but there is nothing to suggest that.

Rewind 12 years and they refused to extend Brian Kerr’s stay until Ireland’s fate was known. When his side fell short, didn’t keep him on. Trapattoni was given new deals when something tangible was achieved, a play-off spot in 2009 and qualification in 2011. So why the change in tack?

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I think O'Riordan makes good points.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

'FAI may have been too quick to hand Martin O’Neill new contract': https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...-new-contract/



I think O'Riordan make good points.

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I don't agree RE Trap, Trap had brilliant players of this ilk, who were in their prime: Shay Given, Richard Dunne, Duff, Robbie Keane, John O Shea, Coleman ( didn't use him enough) Wes ( didn't use him enough)James McCarthy ( didn't use him enough) McCLean ( didn't use him enough) Steve Finnan ( didn't use him enough) Stephen Reis ( didn't use him enough) and Andy Reid ( didn't use him)

O' Neill doesn't have that talent to play around with

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

I don't agree RE Trap, Trap had brilliant players of this ilk, who were in their prime: Shay Given, Richard Dunne, Duff, Robbie Keane, John O Shea, Coleman ( didn't use him enough) Wes ( didn't use him enough)James McCarthy ( didn't use him enough) McCLean ( didn't use him enough) Steve Finnan ( didn't use him enough) Stephen Reis ( didn't use him enough) and Andy Reid ( didn't use him)

O' Neill doesn't have that talent to play around with

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Didn't Finnan retire at the beginning of Trap's reign?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Didn't Finnan retire at the beginning of Trap's reign?

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No he was another one trap fell out with

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Timing is ideal to be honest IF the FAI Board decided that they wanted to keep MON irrespective of the results. If they left it until after the two games and we qualify (after play off), his standing goes up, as does his salary demands and his attraction to other Associations/clubs. If we don't qualify, so be it as they wanted MON to carry on. Whether people think he is the man to carry on is another issue. The Board thinks he is and therefore the timing is correct.

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I don't think there's anyone who would be interested in Mon even if we do qualify tbh, certainly not from top tier clubs/associations.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

No he was another one trap fell out with

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Finnan and Reid were old/crocked by the time Trap came around.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

No he was another one trap fell out with

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Trapattoni was the one who convinced him to return: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...team.liverpool

http://metro.co.uk/tag/steve-finnan/

He went with McShane instead of Finnan for the play offs against France .... how did that work out

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

http://metro.co.uk/tag/steve-finnan/

He went with McShane instead of Finnan for the play offs against France .... how did that work out

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He went with O'Shea, McShane came on as a sub. Finnan had only played four games that season after signing for Portsmouth, and missed most of the previous season in Spain.

I meant he went woth McShane ahead of Finnan. Finnan and Reid were both fit for the France game

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

I meant he went woth McShane ahead of Finnan. Finnan and Reid were both fit for the France game

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Finnan wasn't fit, he was taken off for Portsmouth against Wigan at the end of October, and missed their next four games. Didn't play against until early December.

not sure which Reid you mean. Steven was out of the Blackburn team at that time and Andy was out of favour with the manager at the time.

McCarthy wasn’t in his prime, he was still a kid at that stage

Aside from O'Neill's hoofball fetish and some dismal slipshod performances, he has had to work with quite a few players who were around in Trap's time and not exactly top notch even when in their prime. Ward is still our best at LB, Whelan still a constant presence, Walters, O'Shea, McClean and Wes is turning 50 soon, though Ward has remained at his consistent level and Murphy has improved since Trap.

There should have been a tacit agreement that there be no new contract discussions until the current qual campaign has finished.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

McCarthy wasn’t in his prime, he was still a kid at that stage

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I'm pretty sure Coleman wasn't a settled right-back either until around 2011 or 2012. He was on loan with Blackpool in the Championship during 2010 - where he made nine appearances - and was then appearing on right midfield for Everton for a period after that. He didn't play a huge deal in 2011-12. Was he injured or was that due to a dip in form? His best season to date was undoubtedly 2013-14, which coincided with O'Neill taking over from Trap at international level (in November 2013).

Liam Brady: “Denis O’Brien is the benefactor of some of the manager’s wages and would probably say ‘I have nothing to do with it’ but I think he does”.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I don't believe in change for the sake of change so in the absence of a compelling replacement I'm reasonably happy for him to continue. Though I've stated my unhappiness before with the whole culture around the marquee manager that Delaney has now brought into this.

"some of it has been poor" is an understatement mind. Unless we experience an improbable and utterly unpredictable change in form over the imminent 180 minutes of competetive football then 2017 -that is the entire year -has been an unqualified (no puns) collapse.

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I'm sure a viable replacement could have been found if a search was undertaken. Personally, I think Stephen Kenny would have been suitable. I know others wouldn't agree, but I explained my thinking here and here (although I guess such talk is academic now):

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

If O'Neill was to be replaced - and it's something I'm growing more and more open to because I think there are superior options out there and we could be utilising our talents much better - I'd like to see either Stephen Kenny or Michael O'Neill in charge. Kenny would be the preference. He does a great job with Dundalk on limited resources and has them playing a fantastic and very much watchable brand of football that also happens to bring positive results. Kenny has worked directly with a few of the players in and around the squad before as well - James McClean, Stephen Ward, Daryl Horgan, Seáni Maguire and Andy Boyle, for example - and I'm sure he would command a broad respect, especially from those who came through or played in the LOI and those who may have encountered him already in some form or another due to that. (When Brian Kerr was put in charge of the senior international team, there seemed to be a disconnect or a lack of respect from the players, possibly on account of Kerr's LOI background at a time when our international players simply didn't come through the LOI, save for the odd exception like Jason Byrne or Glen Crowe who didn't receive a huge deal of international recognition anyway, but I would expect a contrast in how the present group of players would regard Kenny.)

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Some further opinion on O'Neill's contract extension from Brian Kerr: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017...eill-contract/

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Originally Posted by RTÉ

"I think the timing is strange," [Kerr] told RTÉ Radio One’s Morning Ireland programme.

"I think most football people would think it’s a little premature when we haven’t finished the group yet, we have two important games to go. It’s not usually how the board of the FAI and its chief executive have worked in relation to managers in recent times. Also, given that the games are so important, I would have thought that the concentration would have been totally on achieving the two results over the next few days."

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And from Paul Doyle in the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/football...martin-o-neill

I thought the following paragraph was both amusing and depressing at the same time in how accurate it was:

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Originally Posted by Paul Doyle

Ireland’s matches tend to follow one of two scripts: either they take an early lead and then back off as if they have committed an embarrassing faux pas, as in Georgia last month; or they start sluggishly and then stage a late rally, as in the home draw with Austria in June. Seldom have they have been good for 90 minutes. A lack of control has been a recurring feature. A sensible default prediction for almost any match involving Ireland these days is a draw, because without being defensively sound, they are cussedly hard to beat and grievously lacking in creativity.

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I always think 2 qualification cycles(WC/EC) is enough for a manager. By the third cycle, the players need changing and managers tend to stick with what he knows.