NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

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Originally Posted by SaucyJack

I have brought this up before, and not in a joking manner, why no uproar about Northern Ireland women playing in the Republic's women team?...is this against FIFA rules?....there are a couple, Laura Hislop of Belfast comes to mind.

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I would assume that the rules on eligibility for the womens game would be the same as mens. Therefore this ruling would apply to them to.

I have no interest in womens football, and therefore wouldnt have a clue as to specific cases.

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Originally Posted by Maroon 7

Possibly not but the vast majority probably would if given the oppertunity.

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Prior to the 2004 rule change, any Northern Irish player would have been Eligible for the Republic of Ireland if they so wished. How do you then explain the vast number of presumably Nationalists that have played for NI down the years?

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Originally Posted by Maroon 7

The fact that they would also play for NI is neither here nor there. A young footballer is not going to turn down international recognition no matter who it's with and all the benefits and exposure it gives his career.

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Agreed, not many youngsters would turn down the chance of international careers.

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Originally Posted by Absinthe

Prior to the 2004 rule change, any Northern Irish player would have been Eligible for the Republic of Ireland if they so wished. How do you then explain the vast number of presumably Nationalists that have played for NI down the years?

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So called gentleman's agreement.
We could have done with Pat Jennings though.

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Originally Posted by geysir

So called gentleman's agreement.
We could have done with Pat Jennings though.

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So you could argue that FAI broke this so called gentlemans agreement, and that is actually how we ended up at FIFA, and its not the bigotry of the IFA? :eek:

Big Pat is an absolute legend. Theres not many international or club sides (Arsenal, doh!) that wouldnt have wanted him!

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Originally Posted by Absinthe

So you could argue that FAI broke this so called gentlemans agreement, and that is actually how we ended up at FIFA, and its not the bigotry of the IFA? :eek:

Big Pat is an absolute legend. Theres not many international or club sides (Arsenal, doh!) that wouldnt have wanted him!

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The original agreement was part of a different era and whether you like it or not over the course of the 80's and early 90's it became more difficult for Nationalists playing for the 6 counties (look at the abuse Lennon got for the obvious example). Plus around the same time we became the more likely of the 2 teams to qualify for major tournaments which would have impacted.

Also, I'm not sure what the rules of eligibility were back at that stage, they've changed considerably over the years with granny rules etc so it may not have been an issue until the rules were expanded to include citizenship which then had no grey area until the Quatar case.

As for Big Pat, I assume you meant 'Tottenham, D'oh'??? ;)

Absinthe, do you have any opinions on people born in the north representing Rep of Ireland by any chance, if so dont keep them all too yourself!:D:D

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

The original agreement was part of a different era and whether you like it or not over the course of the 80's and early 90's it became more difficult for Nationalists playing for the 6 counties (look at the abuse Lennon got for the obvious example).

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They were obviously dark days for Northern Irish football, but we have fortunately left them (hopefully) far behind us.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Plus around the same time we became the more likely of the 2 teams to qualify for major tournaments which would have impacted.

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Gloryhunters, besides you had no room in your squad after all the English players you picked! :p

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Also, I'm not sure what the rules of eligibility were back at that stage, they've changed considerably over the years with granny rules etc so it may not have been an issue until the rules were expanded to include citizenship which then had no grey area until the Quatar case.

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They have, but that is irrelevant in the context of a gentlemans agreement.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

As for Big Pat, I assume you meant 'Tottenham, D'oh'???

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Yes. D'oh. :o

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Originally Posted by Ireland4Ever

Absinthe, do you have any opinions on people born in the north representing Rep of Ireland by any chance, if so dont keep them all too yourself!:D

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If they are eligible then no. Obviously if they are good enough I would prefer they played for the country of their birth.

However, as I read the FIFA rules, I genuinely dont believe that they are eligible.

[QUOTE=Absinthe;801705]

Gloryhunters, besides you had no room in your squad after all the English players you picked! :p

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Tounge in check I know but given the total lack of connections of Maik Taylor and other players who've played due to the UK passport issue you're in no position to talk! At least our players did have blood ties (even Casscarino qualified through adoption despite the sales pitch for his book!)

[QUOTE=Absinthe;801705]

They have, but that is irrelevant in the context of a gentlemans agreement.

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The gentlemans agreement came into place when there were players involved who had been born pre partition, I don't know exactly when the rule regarding parents was first introduced or when it was expanded to include grandparents but the gentlemans agreement had gone out the window a long time back as the 2 FA's had differing views on that aspect (look at Kernaghan for example when the IFA weren't looking at Gendparents to recruit players)

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

The so called United Kingdom actually now provides Passports peculiar to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland which are different to those issued to English people.

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No they don't. A British passport is a British passport. The only difference is for certain colonies (Montserrat, etc.) where the passport is slightly different (British Dependecies Passport or something) to prevent these people actually moving to the country they are 'subjects' of.

For those that want the virtual passport to go with their virtual country (not just NI in this category but Wales, Scotland and England IMO) you can get a 'Scottish Passport Holder' leather cover.

http://www.t-army.com/tar_goods.html

http://www.goplanetgo.co.uk/index.ph...on=show_detail

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Originally Posted by lopez

No they don't. A British passport is a British passport. The only difference is for certain colonies (Montserrat, etc.) where the passport is slightly different (British Dependecies Passport or something) to prevent these people actually moving to the country they are 'subjects' of.

For those that want the virtual passport to go with their virtual country (not just NI in this category but Wales, Scotland and England IMO) you can get a 'Scottish Passport Holder' leather cover.

http://www.t-army.com/tar_goods.html

http://www.goplanetgo.co.uk/index.ph...on=show_detail

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I have seen these documents my self through my job so I know they exist.
And the Isle of Man and Channel Islands have their own unique British passports too.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

but the gentlemans agreement had gone out the window a long time back as the 2 FA's had differing views on that aspect (look at Kernaghan for example when the IFA weren't looking at Gendparents to recruit players)

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The IFA blame Brian Kerr for breaking the gentleman's agreement.
Did they not know he was a Dub?

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

I have seen these documents my self through my job so I know they exist.
And the Isle of Man and Channel Islands have their own unique British passports too.

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Both the Isle of Man and Channell Islands have a seperate status from the UK than Scotland and Wales. Neither Scotland, Wales or NI have different passports. I'd be interested if you could find an example of these passports or an article where Scotland and Wales being granted their own passports, because this piece of news has passed me by in England.

If you've seen such passports, I'd say they are fakes, because googling 'Scottish passport', or typing into the UK passport website, comes up with nothing. Google does come up with an interesting football discussion where someone enquirers where to get a Scottish passport and a respondent claims to have picked up a fake Scottish passport in Inverary.:D

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=540414

The only sop to the universal British passport is the inclusion of welsh and Scottish (Gallic) translations in the new biometric passports. These will be available in England as much as elsewhere.

http://www.passport.gov.uk/press-archive-2005-02-08.asp

However, Scotland and Wales are part of Britain. Maybe when some teacher-cum-poet organises a blood sacrifice they might get to issue their own passports. Scotland bangs on enough about how much they hate the English, you'd think they'd be queuing up round the block.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by lopez

Both the Isle of Man and Channell Islands have a seperate status from the UK than Scotland and Wales. Neither Scotland, Wales or NI have different passports. I'd be interested if you could find an example of these passports or an article where Scotland and Wales being granted their own passports, because this piece of news has passed me by in England.

If you've seen such passports, I'd say they are fakes, because googling 'Scottish passport', or typing into the UK passport website, comes up with nothing. Google does come up with an interesting football discussion where someone enquirers where to get a Scottish passport and a respondent claims to have picked up a fake Scottish passport in Inverary.:D

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=540414

The only sop to the universal British passport is the inclusion of welsh and Scottish (Gallic) translations in the new biometric passports. These will be available in England as much as elsewhere.

http://www.passport.gov.uk/press-archive-2005-02-08.asp

However, Scotland and Wales are part of Britain. Maybe when some teacher-cum-poet organises a blood sacrifice they might get to issue their own passports. Scotland bangs on enough about how much they hate the English, you'd think they'd be queuing up round the block.:rolleyes:

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All correct hence why channel islanders etc can pick which of the 4 UK teams they wish to play with as they're not actually from any of them (another peculiar annomally for the UK). Sure didn't Wales try and get Matthew Le Tissier to declare when he wasn't being picked for England.

They don't even issue 'British' passports anymore, they're the EU style with United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland on them.

Which is more correct of course as the 6 counties has never actually been part of Britain and never will be short of chopping a landmass off the island of Ireland and attaching it to Scotland or something. A sort of plantation in reverse if you will.....

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

The bottom line is that the IFA are and willl be always fighting a losing battle. And even if they ever win it, players won't want to play for your team anyway, so it's a lose lose.

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And...if they don't want to play, we don't want them.

How many underage players have left the IFA setup to join the FAI setup to date?

Is it still in single figures?

The "Irish Citizens" in the Northern Ireland Under 16 team who defeated the Republic Of Ireland recently must have missed out on your thoughts.:eek:

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Originally Posted by cheifo

Slightly off topic but I hope none of this affects the Setanta Cup which we all need to continue to develop.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

And...if they don't want to play, we don't want them.

How many underage players have left the IFA setup to join the FAI setup to date?

Is it still in single figures?

The "Irish Citizens" in the Northern Ireland Under 16 team who defeated the Republic Of Ireland recently must have missed out on your thoughts.:eek:

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You say if they don't want to play you won'tr play them, but clearly this isn't the case. Isn't this whole debate about Darron Gibson? Nigel Worthington and the IFA are trying to force him to declare for them even though he wants to play for us. And what's with the quotations around Irish Citizens. They are Irish Citizens as far as the Good Friday Agreement is concerned and I'd pay much more attention to that than what FIFA make them out to be.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

You say if they don't want to play you won'tr play them, but clearly this isn't the case. Isn't this whole debate about Darron Gibson? Nigel Worthington and the IFA are trying to force him to declare for them even though he wants to play for us.

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No, that is not what the IFA are trying to do.

As I understand it, Worthington asked Gibson would he like to play for Northern Ireland - given that Gibson is undoubtedly eligible to play for Northern Ireland, that seems pretty normal behaviour to me.

Gibson said "no thanks" - fair dues in my book.

He cannot be "forced" to declare for Northern Ireland - if he doesn't want to play, nobody can make him play.

Let me make this absolutely clear to you.

Regardless of a players' eligibility (or otherwise) to play for another national side, if they don't want to play for Northern Ireland, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO I WANT THEM TO APPEAR IN A NORTHERN IRELAND SHIRT.

Only players who want to wear the shirt should be in the team.

It's not rocket science.

I didn't make myself clear. When I was saying you I didn't referring to you personally, I meant the Northern Irish management. You said "we", I took that to mean the management.

Lopez

I have actually seen the Wales passport. It's like a British Passport only with an inside page indicating the person is from Wales and I think Wales is there in Welsh into the bargain. I don't know if they are standard issue but the point is they can be got.

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Derry City are in the Eircom League by consent of both the IFA and FAI and it is blessed by UEFA. This is the same principle by which Berwick Rangers play in Scotland and FC Vaduz from Liechtenstein are permitted to play in the Swiss Second Division.

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yeah guys i actually know all this, i was just trying to point out how silly this proposed new FIFa ruling will be

for the unionists to be objective in this case, then wouldnt it mean they would have to seriously question their whole reasoning for been in ireland, history and undertsand the "other" and their love of a united ireland.................ie it is never going to happen