Andy Reid(b 1982)

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Out of position... By all means play him out wide but with the freedom to drift about. Not stuck on the left wing, it's just not his game.

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For me that's the crux of the issue. Reid can't play in the way we play our wingers (stuck on the wing, chasing up and down it for 95 minutes), and he's not really a combative midfielder in the mould of Andrews, Whelan, Gibson. So he doesn't really fit in to the sytem we play.

That makes the next question is Reid good enough to change the system to accomodate? I don't think so. We've tried to accomodate Reid in previous campaigns and ended up staying at home. That's not to completely criticise Reid's performances, but it is a different style of midfield as a whole to the one we currently play which looks like we're going to be boring and fight and scrap our way to South Africa. Besides, I can't remember on too many occasions that Reid used his undoubted talents to big effect on the national stage. I seem to remember recurring complaints about our midfield during the previous 5 or so years.

Reid does have the talent to be in the squad, for sure. But the guy's attitude has to be questioned. Every time people congratulate him for slimming down (it seems like that has happened about 3 times now) I have to question just how the feck did he end up so out of condition in the first place whereby a player is in a position to have to lose that much weight.
Of course Trap, Tardelli and Brady know Reid has the talent to be a squad player, but obviously his attitude in Mainz has done him out of that back-up role (we've all heard the rumours of what went on that infamous night). Trap knows that Reid is a good player, but for Ireland he'd be a bench player. Is it worth the ensuing circus of having all eyes focused on the subs bench, fans booing etc in the event of a game being 0-0 at half time? I think Stephen Ireland is a good enough player to justify that sort of circus, Andy Reid though isn't imo.

As has already been said he's found his rung on the ladder as being a good player in a poor enough team....if his vision and passing ability really were as decisive as some make out he simply wouldn't be in and out of a poor Sunderland side over the last couple of years.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

if his vision and passing ability really were as decisive as some make out he simply wouldn't be in and out of a poor Sunderland side over the last couple of years.

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Fair enough post but last season was his first since Spurs that he wasn't a sure starter.

I think Reid's first quarter century of caps have been better than most Irish players. From his excellent debut, to being singled out as MOTM by van Gaal against Holland to his brilliant goal on his competitive debut against Cyprus to an excellent pass for Keane's goal vs Israel to dominating the Germany game amongst others. He has had a couple of poor games but has looked comfortable at international level from day 1.

I agree he's done well enough for us (though can't remember anything of note during the Stan era, perhaps that whole time is best forgotten) but my point is that if you play Reid, while he may be doing his bit, it requires a different style of midfield to accompany him. As a whole that midfield and the different variants we tried on it over the last 5 or so years didn't work. Taking Reid out for a more technically limited player like an Andrews/Whelan/Gibson style may well be putting in a 'worse' player, but it may just benefit the team as a whole and as we all know there's more to picking the XI most talented players.

In the perfect world Reid would be able to combine his undoubted technical skills and vision with the physical attributes and engine of a more defensive/complete midfielder. Of course if he could do all that he would have more illustrious clubs than Notts Forest, Charlton and Sunderland on his CV!

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Originally Posted by TerryPhelan

Trap clearly sees Andy as being good enough and as having some role to play (rumour has it that he had decided to use Reid as a sub against Montenegro, but the post-match shenanigans in Mainz changed his mind).

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Hardly likely, Trap chose Andy as a sub, told him to get warmed up in the 2nd half and get ready to come on, Tardelli with the virtual clipboard giving instructions. More likely some event on the pitch caused Trap to change his mind than a sudden memory recall of Andy swilling pints and crunching chords on his guitar.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Hardly likely, Trap chose Andy as a sub, told him to get warmed up in the 2nd half and get ready to come on, Tardelli with the virtual clipboard giving instructions. More likely some event on the pitch caused Trap to change his mind than a sudden memory recall of Andy swilling pints and crunching chords on his guitar.

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My point was that his initial decision to use Reid was made before the game, then Mainz happened and he opted against it. This is backed up by Trap's quote that:

"Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker."

If his decision not to use Reid was motivated by what happened in Mainz, I would not expect Trap to say so. I don't think that his decision not to use Andy was made on the touchline but in the wake of the falling out after the Georgia game.

it looks like you have the timeline in a twist.

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My point was that his initial decision to use Reid was made before the game

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before the Montenegro game?
Normal enough so

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then Mainz happened and he opted against it

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Mainz reveleries happened on Sat Night
Montenegro game the following Wed.

Terry your post simply does not make sense.
When not sure, follow the evidence.

Easy there. I meant that the decision to use Reid as a sub was made in advance of the Montenegro game and before the Mainz incident. I will try and dig out the quote from Trap that highlights this.

Terry, your quote does not support your theory.
For the Montenegro game, Andy was told by Trap to get ready to come on, he was out on the sideline ready to come on. Then after something happened on the pitch, Trap changed his mind and called Andy back to the bench
Are you saying that Trap changed his mind at that very instant because of a sudden memory recall of Mainz reveleries?

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Originally Posted by geysir

Are you saying that Trap changed his mind at that very instant because of a sudden memory recall of Mainz reveleries?

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In fairness, he is getting up there in years.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Terry, your quote does not support your theory.
For the Montenegro game, Andy was told by Trap to get ready to come on, he was out on the sideline ready to come on. Then after something happened on the pitch, Trap changed his mind and called Andy back to the bench
Are you saying that Trap changed his mind at that very instant because of a sudden memory recall of Mainz reveleries?

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Fair play, if that's what happened then I've clearly got it wrong. My understanding of the situation was that Trap had pencilled in Andy as a contingency plan for Montenegro to use off the bench and that this decision was made before the opening brace of World Cup qualifiers: Trap felt that Andy's style would work to good effect against Montenegro under certain circumstances, while not so well against Georgia. So the plan going into these games (in my understanding) was to use Andy against Montenegro but not against Georgia. Then when Mainz happened, Trap presumably felt it more important to prove a point than go ahead with the contingency plan of using Reid (in any event, the contingency event may not have even happened). I watched the Montenegro game and don't recall seeing Reid warming up or being summoned from the bench at any point, but obviously it's possible I missed it or it has slipped my memory. But I've never said that I thought Trap changed his mind on the touchline as a result of belatedly remembering the Mainz episode.

Wasn't Reid in the squad for the Cyprus at home game?

I think it was over the course of preparation for this game and Reids sulky behaviour in not being used that led Trapp to choose not to include him again.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Wasn't Reid in the squad for the Cyprus at home game?

I think it was over the course of preparation for this game and Reids sulky behaviour in not being used that led Trapp to choose not to include him again.

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Brilliant man management

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Originally Posted by Scram

Brilliant man management

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Well, international football doesn't always provide a lot of time for pandering to individuals bruised ego's.

I don't necessarily agree with Trapp's hardline course of action but maybe he felt he needed to set an example.

Reid has actually gone up in my estimation in relation to how he's obviously trained very hard and is actively trying to play his way back in. Let the football do the talking.

If he had adopted that attitude from the beginning, I'd harbour a guess that he wouldn't have been frozen out in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Wasn't Reid in the squad for the Cyprus at home game?

I think it was over the course of preparation for this game and Reids sulky behaviour in not being used that led Trapp to choose not to include him again.

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yeah, he was a sub in that game: http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/m...ils.php?id=451
only Caleb Folan made it off the bench though

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

yeah, he was a sub in that game: http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/m...ils.php?id=451
only Caleb Folan made it off the bench though

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Thanks for confirmation of that.

For the record, I'd far prefer to discuss Reid's playing his way back in as opposed to speculating any further as to how he got frozen out.

Its immaterial now as to how he's been missing - lets hope he continues to play well and leaves Trapp with no option but to draft him back in, in the near future.

It staggers me how much time is spent discussing Reid's weight loss / gain. If the bloke didn't have a complex about it - he does now!!.

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Originally Posted by TerryPhelan

My understanding of the situation was that Trap had pencilled in Andy as a contingency plan for Montenegro to use off the bench and that this decision was made before the opening brace of World Cup qualifiers: .

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The quote you were referring to, was Trap explaining his thinking before the Montenegro game
"Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker. But I have 30 years’ experience and I knew that if we lost the support that Keane and Doyle were giving to our midfield it might be a problem. I thought also about bringing on Murphy because his style is different. But that’s normal – before every game I write who might come in for someone else but then, on the pitch itself, it’s not always possible to make those changes."

Andy was a sub for the Montenegro game. Trap singled him out for planned use. Andy remained in the squad for the Cyprus game.
The only things that have crept out after the Cyprus game was Trap motivated to say that he likes a smiling face whether you are in or out of the team. Also we had an image of Andy, glum as hell, on the subs bench.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I think it was over the course of preparation for this game and Reids sulky behaviour in not being used that led Trapp to choose not to include him again.

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If that's the case though, given his effort preseason, and the dignity Reid has dealt with the whole thing over the last year and a bit (compared with say Joey O'Brien) wouldn't that warrant a recall, even for a Freindly???

Maybe we're reading too much into it. Maybe Trapp just doesn't value what he has to offer his system(s). I've heard two different versions from football people who I would consider "in the know". One says that Reid told him himself that Trapp simply doesn't rate him. Another guy fairly well involved in the school boy game said the Mainz thing was actually alot more heated than has been reported.. I dunno

For me though, he'd be in the squad every time..

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

If that's the case though, given his effort preseason, and the dignity Reid has dealt with the whole thing over the last year and a bit (compared with say Joey O'Brien) wouldn't that warrant a recall, even for a Freindly???

Maybe we're reading too much into it. Maybe Trapp just doesn't value what he has to offer his system(s). I've heard two different versions from football people who I would consider "in the know". One says that Reid told him himself that Trapp simply doesn't rate him. Another guy fairly well involved in the school boy game said the Mainz thing was actually alot more heated than has been reported.. I dunno

For me though, he'd be in the squad every time..

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I think many of us agree on this - He should be in the squad and lets hope he plays his way in.

Stephen Reid, Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland - all not at our disposal for very different reasons. :(

(Head in hands.................)

Just to back up Geysir: Reid was definitely stripped off and ready to come on in Montenegro.

hmmm, putting one out there then, perhaps a lesson on the part of Il Trap.....