Quote:
Originally Posted by
Charlie Darwin
I think that's the point I was making. Attendances aren't what makes a club sustainable - prudent management is, whether you have 500 a week or 5000.
We've covered that ..... its a given, and stating the obvious and as i said no harm in stating that.
Quote:
Those clubs have problems, obviously, but they aren't related to baseline attendances.
My point is, that if their spending stayed the same and they managed to get 1000 through the gate on a regular basis then clubs wouldn't see management problems and should be able to kick on and develop their clubs, so its not just fire fighting trying to balance the books.
Quote:
They cut their cloth according to their coat, and right now that is enough to sustain a high-ranking first division club. If the league progresses and PD teams start hosting regular crowds of 2000+, then there will be pressure on them, but right now they are big enough to sustainably challenge for the top table.
As i said, i wouldn't like to leave it to chance, i'd rather a club would be looking to increase attendances and in turn sponsorship and merchanise. I wouldn't like a club to be doing so much cutting that they end up with a waistcoat, thats what i'm getting at. My point is about direction, not standing still, not balancing the books one month and theres a collective sigh of relief around the table, and clubs start the whole 'what if' uncertainty again the next month
Quote:
I agree with you, I think, I just think you are phrasing your argument wrong. It would be great if all LOI teams needed 1000 people per game to keep at the top table, but the fact is they can get by on a lot less and do. Any change to that status quo will need to come from all levels of the game, not just the bottom clubs increasing their attendances.
Ok, i know they can do with alot less, hopefully they are all balancing the books and not getting into trouble but its hard, damn hard and i would be thinking that clubs are feeling it and are only holding waistcoats as it stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
osarusan
On what do you base this? On what numbers/evidence? Have you seen the books at first division clubs?
C'mon, keep it sensible willya, of course i haven't got evidence. Its merely estimation but are you going to argue down over buttons? How much do you think clubs need, and how much do they differ from club to club given they are all in the same game, have to adhere to the same licencing, all try and raise funds pretty much through the same means. They all have the same base costs and its not millions we are dealing with when all the clubs in question are looking at 500 or less average attendances.
Quote:
Are you confident that a club like Mervue need the same figure to survive that a club like Limerick do? Do they have the same costs to run the club?
No, but i am saying that these clubs, all clubs have the same base costs and outgoings as the next one. Obviously it will differ from club to club but when you are only getting 150 through the gate each game then you know and i know its not gonna differ much.
And some clubs can exist, barely keep afloat, barely hanging on, remorgaging the house to keep it ticking over, just keeping the light on, yeah you're right they can do it and you can give them all the medals and accolades you want, 'sure aren't they great altogether, aren't they a model club!' .... NO they are no a model club !! i wouldn't want all LOI clubs modeled on that. I'm saying clubs should be aimming to be getting at least 1000 through the gate to give them at least a fighting chance. And you are missing my point .... i'm on about clubs not having to scraping the barrell here, wallowing in mediocrity (unless they have another means of income).
Quote:
As I said, it's a figure you've plucked out of nowhere. It may have been the figure Cork needed when they were in trouble, but that's no reason to suggest that 1,000 the same figure is what everybody needs.
Yes i chose the figure 1000 as opposed to breaking down each clubs costs one by one applying the same ratio and forumla to their balance sheet, come off the stage will for one second FFS ..... i'm not going to go to the trouble of establishing the ideal sum of revenue each club needs to make to sustain existence, i'm going to pick a realistic figure that i think clubs should be aimming for ..... 1000 people for a league and clubs our size isn't unattainable imo ...... and if you think it is unattainable then i think those clubs should throw the towel in now
Quote:
And these problems only apply to teams whose attendances are under 1000? You say that the issue of Cork, Derry, Shels etc going bust is completely unrelated
Then why bring it up
Quote:
but it's absolutely central to the issue
No its not .... you think its central to my point and i'm telling you its not
Quote:
budgeting is everything.
Everything and nothing ..... nothing to do with my point that is
Quote:
There is no magic number after which all financial problems go away - no matter how big your crowds are, if you spend more than you bring in, you'll be in trouble.
There is no magic, trickery or illusion here ....... its black and white ...... its plain and simple ...... if clubs want to give themselves a break and progress then they need to work on attendances ......
Balancing books are a given, prudence, not over spending, not spending what you dont or wont have .... we've covered that, give it a rest willya.
Imagine for a second if you have a red line ...... and that red line defines the level of where the books are balanced in column A and the same red line extends over to column B which is 473 average attenance for the season ....... now let yourself go for a second, out of body experience n'all and just let it happen .... raise that red line up until the average attendance column is 1000 and over at column A there is a gap between where the books balance and where the red line is
