Printable View
Yeah, I think he should have played last night though as it was the tougher looking fixture. I presume he would have come on if Coleman hadn't scored when he did maybe. It's worked out okay I guess, luckily, especially with Brady absent the next day.
Were they experimenting with Hoolahan's age in mind? He's not going to be available beyond this campaign, given they talked him out of retiring in the summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Last night was just more of the same, don't know why we are even surprised anymore.
We always play at the level of the team we are playing against, crap against crap teams and then raise our game for the bigger ones. Its been the same for years.
3 points are important and Im still confident we will qualify from this group.
As I watched the Wales v Georgia name, I had to ponder once again why so called lesser teams can still produce players who are far more comfortable on the ball than Irish and UK players. However, put the Georgian players in the Championship or EPL and they'd be warming the bench after 3 or 4 games and then be transferred to some Russian or local team for a modest fee. Georgia outplayed Wales yesterday and looked as if they had a team of Wes Hoolahans. Wales huffed and puffed like we did against Georgia and without Bale they were very much second best.
The reason I am putting this comment in the MON/Keane thread, is that I had earlier berated MON in the thread for talking up the opposition. I was wrong. Georgia were really excellent against Wales despite going one behind early doors (as they say in football circles) and based on their performance the 3 points for us looks great although I now fear for the away leg where Austria came away with 3 points but like Georgia, they can keep the ball and can do it slightly better. It is strange though that none of their players would make it in the EPL and yet can pass a ball better than most there which tends one to believe that passing a ball is only one minor element in football. Courage, heart, determination, physicality, will to win etc are all equally important but I still have to scratch my head as to why UK based players struggle to pass a ball. If they ever get the hang of it combined with those other attributes, teams from these islands could be very difficult to beat. Dundalk are on the way to becoming one of those teams!
According to various reviews of Austria's win in Georgia, Austria went two up then Geogria battered them for the rest of the game, and were lucky to escape with the win
I wouldn't go with battered but Georgia were a match for Austria, though those 3 points for Austria means we have to beat Austria at home.
After just a few games this group has been turned on it's head and that type of scrap suits us .....and Mo'N (inserted for thread relevancy).
The crossbar seems to be their biggest foe at the moment. Prevented an equaliser against austria in the dying minutes, against going ahead v us, against taking the lead in a dominant 20 minute spell against Wales on Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Austria have the advantage thus far with 3 points in Georgia. Still we get them at the end of the campaign when they are usually far off the pace and lose interest, a manager who could be fired by that stage hopefully. Weiss has them playing decent, believe-in-themselves football.
Very similar to the last campaign so far, seven points from nine and the group favourites have dropped five points early on. We've won the two games we'd have hoped to win like last time and drawn one where the majority would have been happy with a point when the draw was made (I think). Hopefully Vienna won't be our 'Glasgow moment', but knowing us it'll hardly be plain sailing.
Georgia usually far off the pace at the end of a campaign??Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
In their last major home game for Eur 2016 qual they beat Scotland and played as if their lives depended upon the result.
And in their last away game, they frightened the lard out of Germany, coming close to consigning them to the ignominy of the play offs..
Anyway, we go to Georgia with 3 games left afterwards.
But I suppose that info only strengthens your point :)
In fairness Georgia are one of those teams that we just seem to always beat despite being up against it. The game last week and the McGeady match in the last campaign being stand outs of that.
It's like how I viewed Cyprus before Stan.
we generally overcame cyprus a lot easier than them though, and cyrpus have improved since the start of stans time in fairness.
@Geysir i didnt mean the last game but towards the end of qualifying, they did beat scotland and got results similar against scotland at home before, maybe they are scotlands bogey team and scotland are their certs, a bit like Italy in the 6n, but generally they seem to go off the pace towards the end. Germany did as germany needed to do in that qualifying campaign, just enough. They look a different prospect this time around as Low has set them out to qualify as quickly as possible unlike their last campaign.
Georgia's record in qual campaigns is reasonably consistent, they have a record of being competitive to the end and at home have taken points not just from Scotland but also from better teams than Scotland. Seeing as they look a good deal better team now than previous and we will be meeting them at their peak, the odds are that we are going to have a very tough game there. Also they should have picked up a couple of wins by then.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
It's different for Georgia than say for us, if our campaign was realistically over "early doors", apathy would surely set in, like we had in those dead rubber games v Cyprus and Wales.
What's in our favour v Georgia this time is not football supremacy or realistic qual hopes but history, an incredible string of victories, we are their plague.
So it stands that my humble opinion of Cyprus since Stan's time would correlate with this assertion of yours then? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
That's a very good point to consider alright.
I only came across this now. Good work from the42.ie I think. I wouldn't have any recollection of the pre-Charlton years so I found it interesting at least.
Did Ireland actually play good football before the Jack Charlton era?
Certainly it was high tempo stuff under Hand but with the ball more than not on the deck. However, under Giles it was painfully slow and the crowd didn't take to it at all, especially with centre-backs losing possession in front of goal with dire consequences on at least one occasion I can remember. I think some supporters showed their displeasure by booing. It wasn't attractive football with the methodical possession playing style which could involve many passes across defence and midfield but made little territorial ground, especially in the latter part of his management career but he did early on have the great 3-0 win over the Soviets and a 4-0 over Turkey which still live in the memory.
As ever, as regards playing styles, unless you have Messi, you're better off mixing your game. The truth is that sometimes we do try and play it out from the back but 90% of the time it goes back to the keeper for the hoof. Why ? I watched Owls v Huddersfield yesterday. Two teams in the English Championship both tried to play on the floor. The latter have a German manager and the owners hired him so that the club can play the "German way" and they're doing ok. Wednesday have a Portuguese manager who also likes to play one touch football but they also mix it rather than being one dimensional. The trouble (if one can call it that), is that the Irish players are not encouraged to pass the ball. In a handful of games they have shown they can do it and despite the stick Whelan and McCarthy get, they are both well capable of it but players have to be moving and looking for the ball rather than running away from it. It's too late to build a team around Wes now but we have players, including Arter, who can pass a ball when encouraged but if we keep winning I am not that bothered but I would like us to be able to play both styles - they are not mutually exclusive. The players just need encouragement and practice.
Under Hand, the goalie hoofed the ball most every time. Most every time, the "continental" side would play it out from the back. Hand really had not a clue at this level to add that bit of nous when it was needed.
The best team we ever had was wasted.
I don't think whoever wrote that article actually watched a whole game and took note of what transpired.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Most everytime our goalie hoofed it up front but the players could play it out from the back.
Look at the first 15 minutes of this away game v belgium 1981, the one where the (bribed) ref was the one who was supposed to have fck us up,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...Ur0MpBfU#t=241
The players could play but there was zero effective game plan input from the manager, he even admitted this himself, no matter how good the players were they needed a better manager to guide things along.
This bit from the article in particular not just defies belief but it is just plain ignorant, Stapleton was an established international before Hand came onboard as well as being a class player
"It’s hard to say exactly why Ireland failed under Hand, though a lack of top-class player up front probably didn’t help. Ireland’s two strikers against the Soviets that day, Walsh and Robinson, were not prolific scorers at international level, managing just seven goals in 45 appearances between them. Even though a more acclaimed frontman in the form of Man United’s Frank Stapleton came into the side later on in the campaign, it was generally agreed that the squad never had any proper depth until the Charlton years."
There were 2 radically different campaigns with Hand, the second disintegrated, an excellent team under a hopeless manager.
Charton was a massive upgrade from what Eoin Hand offered but he inherited a squad good enough to qualify he just added 2 good players to it, Brady was ultimately suspended and injured.
But I regard it as banal to claim that we had to play hoofball and we couldn't play an other type of football and be successful, based on what Eoin Hand failed with.
That was 1981, we were a team composed of players who could play football (except Mick Martin) but with no coherent football plan and that was against a highly rated belgium team who were 2nd or 3rd in Europe then and despite having no plan we could still make them sweat.
To answer owl's contention about boring Johnny Giles.
Here's a home game v France 1977
where the tempo was just pitch perfect, note the goalie throws it out to the full back most every time, sometime we lost it but we took on what was then one of the best teams in the world and beat them playing football. We were maybe next to bottom seed.
I also don't abide by using Charlton as justifying hoofball or justifying we can't play it technical like. What is most always forgotten about Charlton is him saying 'i want our football to be played in their half' and when that was done it was a sight to behold, to have the other team pinned back in their own half.
Wembley 1991
I don't deny that there were some great results under Giles but some of the play eventually became very sterile and boring and hence the boos from the crowd. It is interesting that you exclude Mick Martin from among those who could play football. I believe that it was he who gave the ball away against the Swiss in 1975 while playing a pass across the box, a game we lost 1-0 I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Don't forget Jack's team were also the bottom or second from bottom seed when he first came to the party. When people say we could have won dis, dat and d'udder if Charlton had played a different style, England played the passing game with, by and large, mostly better players and they won....? In a group with England, the Dutch Masters and the Soviet Union, we were a few minutes away from a Euro Semi-Final. Would we have beaten England, drawn with the Soviets and narrowly lost to the Dutch playing a different style ? I don't believe we would but agree that it is just speculation. Could we have played possession football with a back 4 of McCarty, Moran, Morris and Houghton ? We might but I would have been looking at it through my fingers :)
Why pick a fight with Ronald Koeman ? I don't get it. It's a no win situation as the club will always prevail over the international side, as it did notably in Keane's career on many an occasion. What is to be gained by having a pop at Everton except to raise their hackles ?
Yeah agreed not helpful. Trying to patronise Everton the club which our players play at the highest level in the premier league , it just doesn't help. He pulled out of international games himself and played in the next Man U match.
It was Koeman that picked the fight I'm fairly sure. MON and Keane are fully entitled to defend themselves.
Plus it gave him the chance to make the very valid point that the Irish players' injuries are probably down to the intensive training they do at Everton rather than Ireland.
I know that Koeman was the instigator, but sometimes, as we all know in life, it is better not to react when provoked especially in a no win situation. Is the attack on Koeman and Everton more likely to make the players more available or less available? I know the answer to that if we're talking about human nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Well I don't think it's likely to make them less available then might as well have a pop. I like the *****ly side to MON and Keane. I'd say it plays well with the players too.
I think it's good that the management team are trying to get our players to 'man-up' to their clubs when it comes to the honour of representing their country. We use to have players whinging about how our facilities were not like they had at their clubs, how our players would be offered cheese sandwiches and cold pizza for fuel, how they would have to train on a bumpy pitch where the cones were out of alignment and then to cap it all, our goalies belonged to another trade union. We even use to have players bunking off in the early hours to skulk back to their master and playing for their club instead of country. All in the past now thank God.
He played at the weekend for Everton despite not being available for us. That was a message from Koeman I reckon.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
There was a week between games. That's a long time. I think too much is being made of this. MON was in his right to play him twice after injury, Koeman was within his to be annoyed by it. There was an exchange of opinions via the press because papers don't refuse ink as they say.
I wonder if McCarthy will even be first choice for Ireland by the time March roles around? And will he still be at Everton? Yes is probably the answer to both questions but who knows. I'd like to see him paired with Arter actually.
I just don't think you should bite the hands that feeds you. You don't get someone to co-operate by slating them in public. If I was the Irish management team, I would just have ignored Koeman's comments. Anyway, we move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
BBC on the prospect of O'Neill taking over at Leicester.
On a separate note, came across this interview by Henrik Larsson with FourFourTwo when he was asked the following:Quote:
The 64-year-old Republic of Ireland manager is a Leicester City legend after taking them into the Premier League and twice winning the League Cup during his spell in charge between 1995 and 2000.
He would be greeted like a returning hero and has exactly the manner to lift the dressing room and supporters in an instant.
He is, though, currently plotting the Republic Of Ireland's route to the 2018 World Cup in Russia and enjoys the challenges of international football so this might be a case of right man at the wrong time.
Quote:
Who was the best manager that you worked under in your playing career?
I had many good managers: Wim Jansen, Martin O’Neill, Frank Rijkaard and Alex Ferguson to name just a few. And Martin knew how to get everybody motivated. I remember when we were about to go onto the field at Liverpool in the season we reached the UEFA Cup final – we’d drawn 1-1 at Celtic Park so had to score at Anfield. The talk he gave before the game made everything sink in for me. I said to myself, ‘F**king hell, I will have no regrets after this game.’
O'Neill ruled out a possible return to Leicester the other day: http://lansdowneroar.com/2017/02/i-w...r-city-return/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lansdowne Roar
Good little teaser here... I got 16/17. Not overly disappointed with the one I didn't get, would have thought of him eventually if I had more time but an easy enough one to forget.
http://www.punditarena.com/football/...in-oneill-era/
Keane on Off The Ball last night.
http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Off...ity_postmortem
Came across that last night. Managed 15/17. I missed one that crossed my mind but I didn't bother typing his name in as I didn't think he'd scored. Probably wouldn't have got the other one. I won't mention names as it'd spoil it for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
14/17. One I'm kicking myself for not getting, two I'm ok with missing out on.
15/17, one obvious one and one I'd completely forgotten had even played for us!
Fourteen here, but only one of the missing three might have come to me with more time.
15/17. The two I missed both have the same initials.
15/17 - one of which was our most recent goalscorer (for shame) and the other being one of the ones that Stutts missed - and I got the more difficult one!