The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If I posted what I (ahem) "strongly suspect" to be the case as regards Omagh Town, it would risk getting this forum closed down.

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For the very same reasons, a lot of what you are trying to drag out in terms of DCFC falls under exactly the same category, with the added complexion that the story is still playing out.

For this very reason DCchat was taken down by the owner for a period and new registrations are banned.There is a lot more to this than football rulebooks.

So the end result is that you get to hurl from the ditch, yet the points you raise can't be answered fully at this stage.

So instead of letting it play out, you keep raising the same issues, that most of us are well aware of (and frankly can't be sorted overnight) again, and again.

Why on earth are you doing this? Whats your motivation? And unless there's something you aren't disclosing, you aren't the official voice of the IFA/IL, so your views are only that, views.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Note to DCFC Steve, ORA and others:
The above is an answer to a point which has been raised, whether it be a good reply or otherwise. It is such responses which allow for proper discussion on a message board.
Refusing to answer direct questions and choosing instead to make sarcastic remarks, or accusing the questioner of being repetitive or disruptive etc, even though he is merely trying to elicit a reply, does not.

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Note to members of internet forums: The above is a perfect example of how to appear smug and condescending on the internet.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

[b]A lot of woolly-minded, uninformed nonsense there[b/], I think.
For one thing, when referring to "they", you blithely and incorrectly conflate the IL, IFA and "big clubs" in your determination to bad mouth senior football in NI.

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Well you'd know all about that.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

More specifically, certain parties may not have been "overly worried" about DCFC having a place in senior football, but others were much more sympathetic - eg Glentoran assisting their efforts to join the LOI. Besides, things change over the decades, as demonstrated by another club from the second city, Institute, gaining a place at the top level.

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All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Besides, things change over the decades, as demonstrated by another club from the second city, Institute, gaining a place at the top level.

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Technically they don't play in the city, and it wasn't exactly easy for them to get there.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

As for Coleraine being "part of the furniture", what does that actually mean? That their presence a long distance from Belfast screws your other argument about "big clubs" not wanting to travel?

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Well you seem to be confused about Coleraine, did the IFA break their own rules, bend their own rules or rewrite their own rules after Coleraine went out of Business? - paying roughly a fifth of the approx 1.5 million they owed.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And as for Swifts, Limavady and Stute being "unwelcome" for being small or distant etc, that is patent balls. Otherwise why would the IFA/IL have adopted a pyramid system and licensing system etc, which allows for progression on footballing merit from Intermediate level via the Championship, to the top level, so long as minimum off-field standards are maintained?

Why would the IL Premier Division be 12 clubs, as opposed to 10 in the LOI? Why would a major provincial club like Portadown, reasonably close to Belfast, have had their Premier application rejected on a technicality, when clubs like Stute were in there? Why would a Belfast club like Donegal Celtic have been excluded, whilst a distant club like Swifts were accepted.

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You seem awfully defensive about this. Yet this can typically be heard, from fans, on the radio, usually after a defeat. It has on occasion been heard from chairmen and managers, that these clubs don't belong in the league.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And as for Omagh Town, you clearly don't know the first thing about what went on at that club. Legal considerations prevent me from suggesting the real reasons for their demise (regretted by absolutely no-one, btw), other than to say that many feel their difficulties were more a matter for the RUC to investigate, than the IFA's to resolve.

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Oh look the IFA washing their hands of something :p

Too bad they didn't heed the RUC's advice on the Brandywell.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And as for all the FAI/Delaney are doing for DCFC etc, that is a long way from what certain individuals at the very heart of the club were saying as recently as a week or two ago.

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I refer you to MK's post

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Things change, you know, even if they don't in the minds of certain other individuals...:rolleyes:

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Yet you, by your wumming, are advocating that another generation of Derry people grow up to despise the IFA.

I think its time both sides in this argument stop the speculation neither knows whats going to happen but both have aired thier views and time will make one of you feel very superiour while the other will not reply to anything for a while.

Thread locked until such time as there's a further development. When it re-opens, can people stop dicsussing the same point over and over and over and over again, even when it's been refuted by people to whom it more directly relates?

Going to re-open this thread now. A couple of groundrules -

1) The vast majority of Derry fans on here and, as far as I can see, on derrycitychat, want the culb to remain in the League of Ireland. Let's not have page after page on how they could reform in the Irish League.
2) Either a new Derry can play in the League of Ireland, or they can't. It's factual, and no amount of discussion, hypothesising, querying, investigating, precedentising or whatever will actually change that. So let's leave that issue aside too.

Any posts covering either of the above two will be binned, with infractions going for repeat offenders.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Going to re-open this thread now. A couple of groundrules -

1) The vast majority of Derry fans on here and, as far as I can see, on derrycitychat, want the culb to remain in the League of Ireland. Let's not have page after page on how they could reform in the Irish League.
2) Either a new Derry can play in the League of Ireland, or they can't. It's factual, and no amount of discussion, hypothesising, querying, investigating, precedentising or whatever will actually change that. So let's leave that issue aside too.

Any posts covering either of the above two will be binned, with infractions going for repeat offenders.

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I say, send them to the Irish League [cough] supporters forum [cough] where they have strickter rules and you will start on -20 posts with 6 infractions.

Statement from the board of Wellvan Enterprises Ltd T/A Derry City FC

Date: 18th November 2009

As everyone will now be aware, all five directors of Derry City FC have moved aside to enable the already formed ‘steering committee’ to enter formal negotiations with the FAI, to seek a return to senior football for our club

A key part in the road map to return us to the League of Ireland was the announcement last week that we were prepared to stand aside, to ensure these negotiations could reach a successful conclusion as it was clear that the already formed ‘steering committee’ would be in a better position to achieve this goal

We would like to place on record our continued commitment to working with the ‘steering committee’ on all issues that require us to do so and confirm our support for this group to be successful in their negotiations, which we understand are progressing

In these clearly testing financial times its commendable that individuals within the ‘steering committee’ have pledged to provide not only practical help but also financial assistance which no doubt our club will need moving forward

We have already met with representatives of the ‘steering committee’ on a number of occasions and will continue to assist them as best we can to ensure a successful outcome for all

It’s of vital importance to the supporters of Derry City FC and the greater community of this city that senior football is returned on time for the commencement of the 2010 season and we’re fully committed to playing our part to ensure this happens

It’s also our moral duty to ensure all creditors of Derry City FC are not disregarded, as they stood by our club in recent times despite the obvious difficulties we were experiencing and it would be wrong now to simply sit back and disregard that contribution

We have therefore sought professional legal and insolvency advice as to how we can best address the issues at hand in an efficient and expedient manner

We will seek to appoint a firm with the correct experience and expertise that will result in the best possible outcome for our creditors, whilst also enabling the ‘steering committee’ to continue with their efforts to set up a new company, members club or other new entity and gain entrance for the start of the 2010 season to the League of Ireland

We therefore have two key objectives to complete as directors of Wellvan Enterprises Ltd T/A Derry City FC and those are outlined above and we confirm to supporters, sponsors, staff, volunteers and the greater community of Derry that we will honour these commitments and will work with all connected parties to achieve the best possible results

The very real human element in all of this must be at the forefront of any solutions that are subsequently implemented as there are individuals including players and staff, families, supporters and creditors with real genuine concerns and these parties are uppermost in our thoughts in these exceptionally difficult times

In case anyone can't read between the lines, the directors who wrote the statement and the creditors they are trying to help........are one and the same*.




*there are other creditors too

they havent gone away ya know

It's just more of the same stuff really... No surprise people are looking for their money...

question, if the board of derry city have stood down then how can they issue statements on behalf of derry city.
or have they moved sideways to allow some process to begin

How many of the 'original' 5 directors are now on the 'steering committee'?

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Originally Posted by passerrby

question, if the board of derry city have stood down then how can they issue statements on behalf of derry city.
or have they moved sideways to allow some process to begin

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in fairness, it's a board of Wellvan statement.
Directors can't just step aside from a company in liquidation, there are laws which prevent that, or At least to punish those who try

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Originally Posted by tiktok

in fairness, it's a board of Wellvan statement.
Directors can't just step aside from a company in liquidation, there are laws which prevent that, or At least to punish those who try

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not really up to speed on company law. so does that mean they stood down from the board of dcfc but are still the controllers of derry city through wellvan

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Originally Posted by Kildareman

How many of the 'original' 5 directors are now on the 'steering committee'?

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None AFAIK.

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Originally Posted by passerrby

not really up to speed on company law. so does that mean they stood down from the board of dcfc but are still the controllers of derry city through wellvan

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If a liquidator gas been appointed he's in charge, there may be differences North and south but a director couldn't Walk away from wellvan but could resign From the club board. Non company directors of wellvan could walk away from both boards as I understand it

Company should be in administration by COB.

Things about to get very interesting once again.

Derry Journal Article, an interview with the chair of the steering group: http://www.derryjournal.com/derry-sp...ive.5844191.jp

I wonder what happened with Dungannon's intention to wind up Wellvan.. it seems not to have come to pass.

Also, since DCFC are still owned by Wellvan and are now in administration, it would seem logical that if they are in the league next season the rule relating to examinership/ administration would ensure a points deduction. The expectation though is that there will be no such deduction. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Isn't part of the point of administration that you get protection from creditors? That'd mean no winding-up orders allowed.

Absolutely yeah, but if it's only happening today I'd have thought Dungannon would have had time to get their spoke in first.

All creditors form an orderly queue, liquidator at the front, HMRC next, any preferential next, then the other poor buggers.

Oh and by the way, the only assets are contingent.

That is all.....

Does Derry City FC count as an asset, will that be sold to the new setup?, or how does that bit work?

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Does Derry City FC count as an asset, will that be sold to the new setup?, or how does that bit work?

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I should've said contingent and intangible.

I think what you've asked is the million dollar question. Its really a question for the liquidator to get the best value for all assets to try and make good the creditors as best possible.

Surely the name is only of nominal - say £100 - value?

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Surely the name is only of nominal - say £100 - value?

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Depends how much the liquidator reckons he can get for it and how quick the successor club needs it (adding in the IFA complexity).

a points deduction must happen

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Depends how much the liquidator reckons he can get for it and how quick the successor club needs it (adding in the IFA complexity).

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If I was Finn harps I'd be trying to buy the name.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Surely the name is only of nominal - say £100 - value?

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I'd say if you have 3 or 4 people wanting to be the next DCFC chairman with a bit of money in their pockets, they may get quite a bit for it.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

If I was Finn harps I'd be trying to buy the name.

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Aye, we could offer 100k for it. It's not like you actually have to settle debts these days :)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Surely the name is only of nominal - say £100 - value?

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:D

Did you mean that?

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I'd say if you have 3 or 4 people wanting to be the next DCFC chairman with a bit of money in their pockets, they may get quite a bit for it.

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http://www.derryjournal.com/derry-sp...ive.5844191.jp

I think this answers that particular question

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I'd say if you have 3 or 4 people wanting to be the next DCFC chairman with a bit of money in their pockets, they may get quite a bit for it.

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No offence chief, you haven't a clue.

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

:D

Did you mean that?

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Yup.

Feel free to offer counter arguments.

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

:D

Did you mean that?

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There's no reason why the fee couldn't be nominal. Could even be a quid for all we know. Just depends what the liquidator feels they can get for it.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Yup.

Feel free to offer counter arguments.

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WOOSH

seems you didn't :p

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define%3A+nominal

What?

A Liquidator isn't charged with trying to sort out DCFC supporters.
He's there to get the largest amount of money from the available assets to satisfy the creditors. The name is one of the few decent assets a club who doesn't own it's own ground has, the liquidator will try to squeeze a nice sum out of it.

None of us is the liquidator, so lets leave the conjecture as to what the intangible and contingent assets are worth.

If I was the liquidator I'd worry first about whether there was enough there to pay my fees!