Eligibility proposal

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17/12/2007, 1:43 PM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

reminds me of the term "arsey" when a mate was getting married and he thought the reverand in the church was calling him arsey when he actually meant RC.

Very good :D:D:D
17/12/2007, 1:50 PM
geysir

The FIFA executive board were not going to approve any changes to the Statutes, they can't anyway, any changes have to be voted on at the AGM or congress by the members.
The only issue outstanding for this past month was a compromise allowing republic born to declare for the North under article 15, (with no annex conditions applying)
The FIFA executive board have the authority, without the need for a congress vote on the matter, to approve a submission (in this case the compromise) by the Legal Board and add it to the statutes as a special agreement between the IFA and FAI.
But the main condition is that both Federations agree on the Legal Board approved compromise.
When that main condition was not met, the Executive Board are not going to rubber stamp a proposed compromise that does not meet the approval of the IFA.
They merely accept the Legal Dept reccomendation that one or both parties do not agree and the matter should be dropped.
That is the only significance attached to the short statement on the matter issued by FIFA executive board.

However I fail to grasp the totality of the mindset of the IFA who have been in direct contact with FIFA legal dept on the eligibility issue for over a year now and are still clueless.
17/12/2007, 1:57 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

However I fail to grasp the totality of the mindset of the IFA who have been in direct contact with FIFA legal dept on the eligibility issue for over a year now and are still clueless.

We all know the reason for that ;)
17/12/2007, 2:05 PM
Paddy Garcia

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

When that main condition was not met, the Executive Board are not going to rubber stamp a proposed compromise that does not meet the approval of the IFA.

The reports suggest that it was rejected by both parties.
17/12/2007, 2:42 PM
Blanchflower

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

I think it opens the door far wider than previously was the case.

Also there was some doubt and debate on the eligability issue up to now, this has been publically put to bed.

If the FAI decide to step up their poaching, then I agree, there will be more RCs opting for ROI than in the past. But my general point remains - the NI team will remain mixed.
17/12/2007, 2:44 PM
Blanchflower

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

The FIFA executive board were not going to approve any changes to the Statutes, they can't anyway, any changes have to be voted on at the AGM or congress by the members.
.

Surely a change to the statutes wasn't needed - just another of those annexes/circulars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

However I fail to grasp the totality of the mindset of the IFA who have been in direct contact with FIFA legal dept on the eligibility issue for over a year now and are still clueless.

They're stupid.
17/12/2007, 2:59 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

The reports suggest that it was rejected by both parties.

It could well be the case,
"They stated that no specific regulations applied because both associations refused previous proposals by Fifa.

But that looks to me that the FIFA legal head was referring to proposals made previous to the last one. And my impression was that the the FAI were resonably positive over this last proposal.
The FAI playing hard ball :eek:
17/12/2007, 3:01 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

Surely a change to the statutes wasn't needed - just another of those annexes/circulars?

Indeed, that's why I wrote this as well

Quote:

The FIFA executive board have the authority, without the need for a congress vote on the matter, to approve a submission (in this case the compromise) by the Legal Board and add it to the statutes as a special agreement between the IFA and FAI

.
The annex had to be voted on at a general Congress
17/12/2007, 3:31 PM
paul_oshea

RCs?! that is an arsey comment actually, because the majority of people on both sides of the border dont care for the church
17/12/2007, 3:44 PM
kingdomkerry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

If the FAI decide to step up their poaching, then I agree, there will be more RCs opting for ROI than in the past. But my general point remains - the NI team will remain mixed.

Theres no "poaching". Irish players are opting to play for a team that best represents them. An Irish man from Derry is obviously going to be accepted the same as an irish player from say, Cork. What do you expect the FAI to do tell them to p1ss off??

Its like this, if NI supporters want promising young "RCs" to play for the team they support they'll have to agree to an All Ireland team.

PS If the northern team remains mixed it will be unionist and any nationalists that cannot make the Ireland team. DG has set the precident, players will always choose to play for the team they supported growing up!
17/12/2007, 4:13 PM
geysir

Darron Gibson has said there are a few players he knows are already wanting to declare for the Republic.
Is poaching defined as a player, wishing to declare, telephoning the FAI on wanting to know how to go about that?
I have a few cousins who are teaching in the North, they tell me that the kids in their school just naturally follow the Republic's team, ie they are not ordered or coerced to, just free will.
17/12/2007, 4:18 PM
Gather round

RCs?! that is an arsey comment actually, because the majority of people on both sides of the border dont care for the church

I'd have said 'nationalists' myself, but Roman Catholics is reasonable as a shorthand. If someone's called Damian Aloysius O'Tuathail and went to a Marist school in Derry (say, no specific example), ye can be FAIRLY sure his family background is Catholic without any guesswork into his politics ;)

Its like this, if NI supporters want promising young "RCs" to play for the team they support they'll have to agree to an All Ireland team

Don't be silly. We ain't giving up our team and I'm certain, as Blanche said, that nats/ catholics will continue to play for it.

PS If the northern team remains mixed it will be unionist and any nationalists that cannot make the Ireland team

Who are you to say what any of the players'/ fans' politics are?

Is poaching defined as a player, wishing to declare, telephoning the FAI on wanting to know how to go about that?
...in the North, they tell me that the kids in their school just naturally follow the Republic's team, ie they are not ordered or coerced to, just free will

I wouldn't accuse the FAI of 'poaching' players UNLESS the IFA had a specific agreement with them that no-one could transfer AFTER playing for our youth and u-21 sides
17/12/2007, 4:23 PM
Blanchflower

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Theres no "poaching". Irish players are opting to play for a team that best represents them. An Irish man from Derry is obviously going to be accepted the same as an irish player from say, Cork. What do you expect the FAI to do tell them to p1ss off??

In a spirit of neighbourliness, the FAI should elect not to select them as has been the case for the majority of the last 50 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Its like this, if NI supporters want promising young "RCs" to play for the team they support they'll have to agree to an All Ireland team.

How do you know? There are already promising young RCs playing for NI, so that would indicate that your statement is false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

PS If the northern team remains mixed it will be unionist and any nationalists that cannot make the Ireland team.

How do you know?
17/12/2007, 5:21 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gather round

This team we call Ireland - you can call it what you like

Republic of Ireland, Southern Ireland or for short the South. No offence intended in any of these.

No offence if we call it Ireland either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gather round

I think the amount they loose will depend on the amount of players from a nationalist background who would be good enough to play for Ireland?
Anyone in the current NI team is clearly good enough to push for a place in the Republic's- our team has been better for the last two seasons.

I think you are getting the performance of the NI team mixed up with the quality as shown by the respected clubs the players play for. This has been helped by the difference between your first manager and the muppet we inherited. I doubt that any of your defenders could not do a better job than O'Shea, but do they play for the premiership champions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

If the FAI decide to step up their poaching, then I agree, there will be more RCs opting for ROI than in the past. But my general point remains - the NI team will remain mixed.

Poaching? :rolleyes: And I was almost thinking you were taking this quite well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gather round

RCs?! that is an arsey comment actually, because the majority of people on both sides of the border dont care for the church

I'd have said 'nationalists' myself, but Roman Catholics is reasonable as a shorthand. If someone's called Damian Aloysius O'Tuathail and went to a Marist school in Derry (say, no specific example), ye can be FAIRLY sure his family background is Catholic without any guesswork into his politics ;).

Disagree. Nationalists have always included Protestants just as there have always been Catholic unionists. To lump anyone in a religious category is laziness, even if his name is Taig O'Fenian and he went to Our Lady of whatever.
17/12/2007, 5:43 PM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Its like this, if NI supporters want promising young "RCs" to play for the team they support they'll have to agree to an All Ireland team.

:D

That made my day!

As it happens, there are plenty of "promising RCs" playing for Northern Ireland at various levels.

You might be surprised at how many of them will, politely,tell the FAI to sling their hook, should they come knocking at their door.:cool:

Your misguided notion of a "fantasy island", singular, AI team lies in tatters.

You'll have to stick to your "next best" option....because, that's as good as it's getting.
17/12/2007, 5:48 PM
Buller

Fantasy island? You sir are misguided. :cool:
17/12/2007, 5:59 PM
Gather round

No offence if we call it Ireland either

None taken. Merely trying to avoid confusion ;)

I think you are getting the performance of the NI team mixed up with the quality as shown by the respected clubs the players play for. This has been helped by the difference between your first manager and the muppet we inherited. I doubt that any of your defenders could not do a better job than O'Shea, but do they play for the premiership champions?

I think there's a more basic reason. More of our players seem to treat internationals as a step up (which it is obviously is when you play for Nottingham Forest in English D3, less so if you're a regular timewasting injury time sub for ManU).

A series of 12 international matches over 14 months is long enough to compare relative quality

To lump anyone in a religious category is laziness, even if his name is Taig O'Fenian and he went to Our Lady of whatever

Isn't lumping them in a political category equally unsatisfactory?
17/12/2007, 6:16 PM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buller

Fantasy island? You sir are misguided. :cool:

I'm sure you were wanting to make a point, but I must aplogise...you've lost me.:confused:

Maybe you would be so kind as to expand your point, and I will duly deal with any salient issues within it, to which I hold a contrary opinion?
17/12/2007, 7:09 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

Disagree. Nationalists have always included Protestants just as there have always been Catholic unionists. To lump anyone in a religious category is laziness, even if his name is Taig O'Fenian and he went to Our Lady of whatever.

I agree with your disagreement. Using the religious lump categories has more than a few shades of a caste perception. I am not a Catholic, anything but.
I don�t mind being lumped under the Nationalist umbrella, the understanding being that there are 40 shades of green.
18/12/2007, 1:03 AM
osarusan

I think that for many ROI supporters, especially those who are on the more "nationalist" side, it is an appealing thought to imagine, or to assume, that for years in the past, every young player who is also of nationalist persuasion has secretly harboured desires of playing for the ROI, and from now on they will be able to follow their dream and declare for the ROI, having being liberated from the strait-jacket of the Northern Irish team.

But we really don't know if that will be the case, and I'm guessing it won't. Not everybody in Northern Ireland will be guided by those principles, I'm sure that some will decide their loyalty based geographical reasons.

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