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No, it should never have been a penalty. Their lad controlled with his arm first, should have been a free out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ger121
I thought we played well, and were very much on top before the peno. Story of our season though. Not taking chances and gave away a cheap first goal too. Hugely frustrating night. Two red cards issued after the final whistle. Adam O’Reilly for Pats and one of theirs. Horrible shower they were too.
Bah humbug, I’ve seen it all before. We had chances we didn’t take. They got a soft goal. The referee had a nightmare. Rinse & repeat. Roll on Sunday v Sligo.
it'll be a miracle for cotter if rovers decide to keep onto him. the lad is no where near good enough for any sort of european chasing loi side.
I think that’s harsh, and I saw almost all of Cotter’s games for Rovers. He definitely needs to improve his decision making, but he has some serious raw abilities in terms of beating a man, pace and power. I was surprised we let him go on loan to be honest, I thought there was a lot to like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
He was woeful tonight. The more I see of him, the worse I think he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
Previously I thought he was awful/ excellent in equal measure, but now it's more 70/30 or even 80/20.
Whenever he does something good now I think he's usually just got lucky.
He takes a lot of risky decisions on the ball. When it comes off for him he looks amazing with his athleticism and power. But more often than not he screws up.
Too inconsistent and way too many mistakes to be a top-end LOI player imo.
Good performance from us tonight so hopefully something to build on for the rest of the season. Not that I think we’d have scored another 2 but would have been an interesting last 20 if we’d scored the penalty.
Anyone know what was the reason for the Pats singing section being in the east stand tonight, while the family section was behind the goal?
Surely it would have made more sense to swap them. You always want your loudest hardcore fans behind the goal!
And it makes for a much better spectacle on TV. With the way it was, the Pats fans were sitting beside the gantry so wouldn't have been very visible on TV. Pity.
Well the Stand behind the goal was only opened after the other two stands had sold out, so I dare say that’s the reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
Conversely it sounded like it was a good atmosphere. Cameras should really be in the West Stand in Tallaght. If you have a singing section of any size in the East Stand it's too close to the cameras and tends to sound too big for its size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
Cameras should be in the West Stand because of the glare from the sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Ach, that was there for the taking for Pat's, but killer instinct lacking. Enjoyable game and even though a disappointing result and CSKA no great shakes (also dirty), we're talking about a game where a well known European side were lucky enough to win in normal time and celebrated like they won the Champions League after beating a LoI side.
Jays - there's some tough teams in Pot 4 all the same. FC Zurich, Silkeborg and Sivasspor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
Pats scored two goals in four games in Europe - which also included 30 minutes of extra time. Dire finishing cost them. They really messed up on a night which, if they'd managed not to lose, would have been the greatest moment in their history.
On the terrible referee, similar to the Rovers game, we're getting to the point where almost every foul is punished by a yellow card. Ir's just ridiculous at this point.
Even after a sleep I have to say I'm still frustrated about that pats match. I've seen a lot of LOI matches in Europe but don't think I've ever been that frustrated after a tie. I think the feeling was mutual for nearly everybody at the stadium. And the players too - hence the bust up after the whistle. It's quite rare you see that really.
Be interesting to see if the ref gave any more reds in the tunnel or dressing room.
Hope they've a few suspended for the playoff and Basel give them a battering.
Pat's were good in the first leg. CSKA being strong at set pieces and Pat's inconsistency were both flagged ahead of this round.
Actually thought it was far better having the singing section there. Don't know why it just worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
Whether it was a peno or not it Brockbank making himself big with his arms wide initially, made it easier for the ref to give a peno, Forrester called him on it too. There is a tendency not to be ruthless enough and misses were costly, anyone who gets a really clinical striker in LoI has a rare asset. the concession of the 1st goal was a complete switch off by the defenders, a very basic error really. It was quite similar to Dundalk first time playing BATE at home, missed chances while being the better side, they were scumbagish all game and at full time (0-0) and went through, started a melee with their celebrations, Dundalk players went to shake hands and they started eyeballing and shoving - the worst level of sportsmanship id ever seen. It boiled down to some naivety and same with pats last night, but its a big learing curve and St Pats will be the better for it.
Im not sure about Cotter as a full back or wing back even as his defensive duties can be so inconsistent and wayward passing in dangerous areas. If he was converted to a good old style winger it could suit with his pace and generally good technical albeit raw technical ability. Would then be ok with basic defensive duties with a work ethic which he has.
It hurts when this kind of result happens but Pats fans shouldnt be too downbeat, its a team thats building and this will be a massive boost knowing that they could compete at this level. It will be about how they deal with the disappointment, either bring that level of performance in to the league or let it get under the skin. There will be other big European nights at some point and maybe last night will be the basis of development for going 1 better next opportunity.
agree on all that. he was as wasteful with the ball away from home too. just no where near the kind of player rovers/any challenger want IMO. he reminds me a bit of colm horgan , athletic but not very good with the ball but at least horgan could make the right decision once in a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
They put on a great display, no doubt about that. I thought they were fantastic all game. In my head a singing section just always seem to naturally belong behind the goal. It can convey the atmosphere to the TV audience and I think it can benefit the team actually. A raucous stand behind a goal can sometimes help as it can make opposition defenders and goalkeepers a bit nervy (they're only human after all) and can have an influence on refs too. It's all part of your home advantage - that raucous support behind a goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
There's a mad stat from a few years back about the amount of penos Liverpool were awarded in front of the kop versus the amount they conceded. It was ridiculous over a long time period. And this was before Klopps time so they were nothing like the supreme outfit they are these days dominating teams.
Yep. Lack of finishing has really been costing us this season. There have been plenty of games where the result has got away because we spurned chances. We are crying out for someone to put the ball in the net. Don’t know about really messed up, because we did play well after the first 15 minutes or so. The penalty decision still stings though. I wasn’t sure having seen it live, but thought it probably was, but having seen it back I’m convinced we were done by the ref. Was just as much a handball by their player, and it came off him first, so never a pen. Ah well. Crucial that we bounce back on Sunday now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
Fair play to you Saint supporters on here for being so calm and level headed about last night. I was apoplectic after that match - and I was there just as a neutral LOI supporter. The ref was dire and shafted Pats all night. Anyone know where he was from?
I wonder is it a common thing that European refs have an idea in their head that a LOI team will just be a bunch of long ball mullockers with little technical ability who go in too hard for challenges?
He was Romanian I think. The free leading up to the penalty decision was so awful that I don't see in any way possible how it was given. Penalty in real time wasnt that clear but the replay looks very like the CSKA player hadled the ball first. Ref basically fell for every trick in the book from CSKA and how there was only 4 minutes of injury time was ridiculous with the amount of time wasting, the penalty decision and the substitutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
Very frustrating not to go through aside from the Ref, Breslin and O'Reilly really should have finished at least on of their chances each. Real lack of clinical finishing from our players all season.
I thought the ref was grand for about an hour to be honest. Lost control a bit after that, O'Reilly was a bit unlucky with his yellow, Grivosti was asking for it, he had an earlier tackle very similar to the one he got booked for, it's a style of tackle I hate to see, diving in and off the ground, even if it's not two footed and contacts ball first it's dangerous and it stands out a mile in the modern game. The free in the lead up to the peno was bizarre, not sure if ref or lino called it but it made no sense. The pen itself looked fair, I didn't spot the CSKA handball at the time and neither did the commentary team. Pat's had more than enough chances to have won on the night, apart from the actual goal and the pen CSKA maybe had two other chances, Pat's had at least 2 absolute sitters, two more excellent chances and a few more half chances. O'Reilly was very impressive for the most part, but he's clearly not a natural finisher and I'm not sure how Breslin managed to actually nearly kill all the pace on the ball when any kind of solid connection was a certain goal. It's been all too common with league of Ireland teams over the years to put in decent performances but miss key chances and give up cheap goals, it was the stereotypical performance unfortunately. Hopefully a huge learning experience for them though and they'll be better for it if they make it back to Europe next season.
Is it the ref or the 4th official that adds time these days? There was a proposal for the clock to be stopped similar to rugby rather than add time. Not sure id like that idea but there definitely needs to be something done. It was Skhupi's time wasting that allowed Rovers the opportunity to get a late 3rd and domestically last week Derry were undone by the added time for time wasting. Maybe just stricter application of the existing rules is enough!?
Potentially could be something in that. We all know LOI refs are bad at the best of times but comparing the cards this season, Pats have had 38 yellows and 0 reds in 24 games, compared to 12 yellows and 2 reds in 4 games in Europe. The average of 1.5 cards a game in the league going up to 3.5 in europe shows a clear difference in refereeing style/standards when you consider some of the shocking decisions and bookings handed out in the European games this season. Mark Doyle's red card being one of the worst ones. To me it seems Mura and CSKA being experienced European sides, applied all the cynical tactics they could to get opposition players booked and the referees just bought it in each of the 4 gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
while the standard of referring in LOI is poor the standard in the Eastern block is worse. Coupled with that players are always play acting, diving and any other skulduggery to win frees, penos and generally waste time. It's ironic that a fellow commarade from a neighbouring country was in charge and fell for the antics.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
Are some League of Ireland clubs too green when it comes to the dark arts etc.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Some. Stephen Kenny's Dundalk were masters of the dark arts.
We learned the hard way!Quote:
Originally Posted by lofty9
I cant remember who against but Dundalk were described as a typically British physical side, or maybe it was not a typically British side!?Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
I think it was on the 2016 run one of the opposing coaches said they were NOT a typical British side, which was lauded as a great compliment at the time. May have been the Alkmar manager. I can't remember exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Yeah I think you could be right that it was the Alkmaar coach, meant as a compliment but caused some gurning at the British reference. It would imply that that is the attitude and refs could well be expecting a physical approach.
Cracking atmosphere at Tallaght last night. The result aside, you'd expect that pretty much everyone there had a good evening out and it was a decent ad for LOI football. They announced near the end about Pats' game against Sligo on Sunday at Richmond Park, and you can't help but feel that any interested/curious newbies who enjoyed last night will find Richmond a very different experience. Especially as they'll presumably got from a crowd of almost 7,000 to one of about 2,000 (?). It goes to show the difference a good stadium makes when it comes to a big game and the matchday experience.
The ref was woeful last night. I don't know if they have assessors at all European fixtures, but he really was terrible. That said, as we all know Pats had enough chances to win it. CSKA were poor. A collection of individuals who looked like they'd never played together before, and who kept making silly unforced errors with sloppy passes etc. Not a single stand-out player in their squad either. I'll be stunned if they make the group stages.
double post
Originally Posted by lofty9 https://foot.ie/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
Some. Stephen Kenny's Dundalk were masters of the dark arts.
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If the FAI introduce VAR into the LOI and are looking for some retired Refs to do it they should check on Stephen O Donnells availability.
Watched the highlights of the Zagreb ludogrets 2nd leg there, where Ludo had 3 men sent off.
The refs "performance" in that game was buttimer bad, and I don't say that lightly. It was so bad you'd have to question the ethics of some of the decisions made against Ludo. As much as I enjoyed the look on the face of Dutch spanner in goal for Ludo, some of the decisions were bordering on corrupt.
Have a feeling we'll see one of Ludo or CSKA in Tallaght again this year.
Watching the Pats game last night you couldn't but help feel WTF is going on here with the match officialsQuote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
With the LoI now up to 36th in the co-efficient, where does it need to be to guarantee seedings in first-round draws - 32nd?
What are ye on about, Stephen O'Donnell doesnt need assistance or video to referee a game!!Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Greg Bolger is another that will no doubt hang up the boots soon and go full time with the refereeing rather than just doing it while he plays ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99