NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

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Originally Posted by co. down green

FIFA are challenged in the courts.

For example Sepp Blatter's proposal to limit the number of foreigners playing for clubs is likely to be challenged in the courts by the EU.

To quote Frederic Vincent, spokesman for the European Union sports commissioner Jan Figel. "This contravenes the EU treaty and internal-market rules on the free movement of workers,"

I would expect FIFA's ruling over player eligibility in the North to potentially face a similar court challenge, when they finally make a decision.

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i'll admit i'm not as up to speed on the law aspect of this as i'd like to be, but i think that FIFA is being taken to court in the example above on employment/contract issues in a european employment style issue. a bit like bosman.

the difference i would reckon with international footballers is that they are non-contractual representitives - i.e not employed and therefore don't fall into the same category. although mr. absent may be a bit of a WUM he could very well have a point on this.

also their is no real Worldwide Court (bar the UN court for Human Rights which is a bit of a joke anyway) to bring it to where there is a european court recognised by all EU states.

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Originally Posted by Absinthe

We dont play under the British Flag, we play under the Ulster Banner. And a lot of Northern Ireland supporters have issues with GSTQ.

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I'm sure a lot of people would have a problem playing under the the defunct Loyalist banner too - a flag which symbolises all that was wrong with the statelet and sectarian parliament it was first used [only fifty or so years ago] to represent.

When you consider some of the players who have played for us and other international countries (Oliveira with Belgium; Brazilians with Spain and Japan etc) then this is ludicrous and actually could completely undermine the peace process. For example, if as already stated, a young lad emerges with world class ability from a nationalist background and he is forced to play for a country that he doesn't want to represent. This will cause tension within his community and could open up a whole range of political issues.

Northern Ireland have had great success in this campaign with a team that want to represent them (including nationalists also). They deserve great respect for that and I really was hoping that they would qualify for 2008. However, having guys like Gibson who is going to be ****ed off in their team is only just going to undermine team spirit.

Why not leave things the way it is? Nationalists can decide who they want to play for. Northern Ireland is a very special case in world football. Roughly half its population consider themselves British and the other half Irish. Its unfair on the people who consider themselves Irish.

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Originally Posted by galwayhoop

i'll admit i'm not as up to speed on the law aspect of this as i'd like to be, but i think that FIFA is being taken to court in the example above on employment/contract issues in a european employment style issue. a bit like bosman.

the difference i would reckon with international footballers is that they are non-contractual representitives - i.e not employed and therefore don't fall into the same category. although mr. absent may be a bit of a WUM he could very well have a point on this.

also their is no real Worldwide Court (bar the UN court for Human Rights which is a bit of a joke anyway) to bring it to where there is a european court recognised by all EU states.

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Just because I dont agree with people on here doesnt make me a WUM. I can also be wrong, I am merely trying to add a different perspective to the mix.

Also, I accept your point on the Bosman ruling, but it wasnt FIFA that were challanged in court it was the players club. FIFA accepted the ruling, but they didnt have to accept ruling. Remember that FIFA (via the relevant countries FA) control a players club registration, which is why for example, a player cant be contracted to say Fluminese and Manchester United at the same time, even though they play in totally different competitions. This means they would effectively be able to stop Bosman players from signing for a new club anywhere else in the world if they so chose, effectively ending his career. I would also assume this is how they can force clubs to pay compensation for Under 24 year olds, as im pretty sure that wont have been part of any court ruling.

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But it does, you live there and were born there. As things stand, the majority of people in Northern Ireland want Northern Ireland to exist. While that remains the case, there will always be a Northern Ireland.

I have genuine sympathy for people who feel so strongly against Northern Ireland that they wouldnt play for them under any circumstances, but, I personally dont see a strong enough reason for FIFA to change their rules which affect virtually every country in world, to cater for a few thousand people.

Generally half our team has always been 'of a nationalist' background, our most Capped player for example, who for my money was the best player in his position in the world, for many years. I think some on here over-estimate the amount of people this would genuinely effect.

For example, how many of you think that if Gibson hadnt been approached the FAI, that he wouldnt be playing for Northern Ireland (at some level) now?

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Its not a few thousand people man. Its close to half of the population of the North.

My anthem is Amhrán na bhFiann…. A Northern Ireland anthem may as well be GSTQ.

Pat Jennings actually lives very close to me…. Peter McParlands sister lives in my street as well. Here are two excellent footballers who should, in my opinion, have represented the Tricolor. But they made their decisions for whatever reason.

I was born in the North of Ireland…. Northern ireland means nothing to me. You claim to have "genuine sympathy"….. Why do u not agree with a rule change then? As It would not have any impact on any other country in the world.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

When you consider some of the players who have played for us and other international countries (Oliveira with Belgium; Brazilians with Spain and Japan etc) then this is ludicrous and actually could completely undermine the peace process. For example, if as already stated, a young lad emerges with world class ability from a nationalist background and he is forced to play for a country that he doesn't want to represent. This will cause tension within his community and could open up a whole range of political issues.

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There are five (i think) additional clauses that allow eligibility. Perhaps you should look at why the players you are claiming cant meet any of these. Ironically the callups for other countries that you are complaining about will get worse if you get wish.

As Neil Lennon said "You play for the country where you were born.", and my own opinion is that as far as is humanly possible this should be the case.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

Northern Ireland have had great success in this campaign with a team that want to represent them (including nationalists also). They deserve great respect for that and I really was hoping that they would qualify for 2008. However, having guys like Gibson who is going to be ****ed off in their team is only just going to undermine team spirit.

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This isnt about Gibson. Many Nationalists have represented Northern Ireland with pride, this is about ensuring that this tradition continues. We are proud of 'Our Wee Countrys' team, and there acheivments, any ruling that can take away from our already limited resources would be disasterous.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

Why not leave things the way it is? Nationalists can decide who they want to play for. Northern Ireland is a very special case in world football. Roughly half its population consider themselves British and the other half Irish. Its unfair on the people who consider themselves Irish.

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Because it is unfair on every other country signed up to FIFA, that you can select players outside of your national boundries, who dont meet one of the additional 5 criteria. i.e. residence or grandparents.

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Originally Posted by northerncelt

Its not a few thousand people man. Its close to half of the population of the North.

My anthem is Amhrán na bhFiann…. A Northern Ireland anthem may as well be GSTQ.

Pat Jennings actually lives very close to me…. Peter McParlands sister lives in my street as well. Here are two excellent footballers who should, in my opinion, have represented the Tricolor. But they made their decisions for whatever reason.

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I can assure you my estimate of a few thousand is much more accurate than your 'half the population'. For a start, not all Catholics want a United Ireland, and not all Protestants want to be part of the United Kingdom. With every passing generation there is a dilution in the disliking for the 'opposing' community.

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Originally Posted by northerncelt

I was born in the North of Ireland…. Northern ireland means nothing to me. You claim to have "genuine sympathy"….. Why do u not agree with a rule change then? As It would not have any impact on any other country in the world.

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See my post above.

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Originally Posted by Absinthe

As I have said before, its their tournaments, you play by their rules, or you dont play.

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You can't really believe it can be that simple? Or do you choose to because it suits?

Not being allowed to represent the choice of nationality afforded to them by the GFA diminishes the relevence of their choice.

The real issue here is the FAI (supposedly) benifitting from the grass roots work of the IFA. Would you not agree that there has to be a way of solving the latter without compromising the former?

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Originally Posted by Absinthe

I can assure you my estimate of a few thousand is much more accurate than your 'half the population'. For a start, not all Catholics want a United Ireland, and not all Protestants want to be part of the United Kingdom. With every passing generation there is a dilution in the disliking for the 'opposing' community.



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You can assure me?? I don’t need your assurance man. You are basically trying to tell me that there are only a few thousand nationalists in the North which is complete
Garbage…. The fact is that if the North played the South tomorrow close to half of the population of the North would support the ROI. Do you agree? If not you need to examine the reality just a little bit more.

A big part of supporting ur country is dreaming about if you were good enough you could play ur part or if any of ur kids or familiy or friends were good enough they could play their part. That’s normal and we should not be denied this.

This isnt about a dislike for the the apposing community… (not for me anyway). This is about me, and my right to support my flag. Now I know that this ruling will not effect my ability to support the ROI, but this ruling is just plain wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Wait until some hotshot emerges from the six counties and states his desire to play for Ireland. He will have a massive club behind him, probably a sportswear giant with cash to burn as well, and he'll fight all the way. FIFA won't have a leg to stand on.
Irishman can't play for Ireland shocker. No chance.

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unlikely. who was the last hotshot to emerge from ireland (north or south) who played for a big club, had a sportswear company behind him and had money to burn???

that only happens to english players!!!

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from mayo , want norn iron to lose every game they play!! i appreciate their stance on this though , it has to be gutting to lose players who have played for them at lower levels, lads from the north who want to play for us must be allowed to do so in my opinion but no chopping and changing , its a pure mockery then. it will be best when it's all finally cleared up. until then are there any good up and comers up there who we could get to defect ?? ;-)

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I wonder would they rule that any player that has come through NI ranks cannot change allegiance to Ireland, as they are being poached?

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I wonder would they rule that any player that has come through NI ranks cannot change allegiance to Ireland, as they are being poached?

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despite NI 'spin' it isn't to do with poaching. players play schoolboy football football in the juristriction they grow up in. a young lad also wanting to play professional football will play for any underage set-up to push himself on. that is why the 'alligence' rules were changed meaning a player doesn't get tied to a certain country until he makes a senior cap.

this nonsence about the IFA developing players and then the big bad FAI coming in poaching the players is tripe too. the major develoment is done by a players club, be it a home club or a professional out-fit in britain. national associations have little imput to players development outside of putting them into the spotlight.

just like the young nigerian who plays with Bray (omeike??) and u19 for ireland. it is very unlikely that he will travel to nigeria to play an u19 game but if he is good enough he may wish to play senior international football with them and good look to him if he does. if he feels more nigerian than irish then i doubt we will tell him he is not allowed play for them. i know it is slightly different in that he was born in nigeria (i think) but the sentiment is the same, if someone is told by the GFA that they are irish then they should be allowed to represent the RoI if this is the team they associate themselves with.

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Roy Keane. Robbie Keane. George Best.

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both robbie and roy had made senior international appearances prior to reaching their peak marketability - which was never that big outside ireland. george best was a totally different era.

and what major sports brand had robbie and roy behind them while they were a young hot-shot??? did either have money to burn as young hotshots??

i'm saying no irish player would have the full package mentioned in the earlier post without being an international player. english players are more likely to have the money and sponsorship deals, but again only after they are capped.

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Originally Posted by northerncelt

You can assure me?? I don’t need your assurance man. You are basically trying to tell me that there are only a few thousand nationalists in the North which is complete
Garbage…. The fact is that if the North played the South tomorrow close to half of the population of the North would support the ROI. Do you agree? If not you need to examine the reality just a little bit more.

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I reckon it would between 1/4 and 1/3 tbh. Our team has always contained a good proportion of Nationalists, but by your warped logic, that could never happen, because all Nationalists think that Northern Ireland shouldnt exist.

You also need to remember that :-
a) Not everybody plays or wants to play football
b) This isnt going to affect anyone under 15 or over 35.
c) Even less people have the required ability.

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Originally Posted by northerncelt

A big part of supporting ur country is dreaming about if you were good enough you could play ur part or if any of ur kids or familiy or friends were good enough they could play their part. That’s normal and we should not be denied this.

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I agree, but, you are not being stopped from playing for your country. Your beliefs/aspirations may prevent you from playing, but you are not being stopped by anyone else from playing for your country.

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Originally Posted by northerncelt

This isnt about a dislike for the the apposing community… (not for me anyway). This is about me, and my right to support my flag. Now I know that this ruling will not effect my ability to support the ROI, but this ruling is just plain wrong.

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I disagree, mainly on the basis, that I already think it to too easy to play for a country outside your birth, e.g. Olisadebe and any number of Brazilians, and any rule that is implemented for Northern Nationalists will make it easier for everyone. I would also hope (long term) that if Nationalists can only represent Northern Ireland, that more would come to the matches and enjoy supporting OWC. I realise that this isnt going to happen in a lot of cases (or indeed overnight), but I love the fact that our team is made up of members of both communities, as it indeed should be. Anything that threatens this in any way is a bad thing.

Who cares about Darren Gibson - he's a reserve at United and by the looks of it won't be getting anywhere near the first team - for a non mickey mouse cup match - anytime soon.

Doubt he'd even get on with NI either

This should be one country but its not and never will be so get over it lads

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Originally Posted by Absinthe

You also need to remember that :-
a) Not everybody plays or wants to play football
b) This isnt going to affect anyone under 15 or over 35.
c) Even less people have the required ability.

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unless the unionist community are all good ball players between the ages of 15 and 35 then i assume the percentages are still the same ;) close on 50-50 Nationalist/unionist.

i would be interested to see a break down of the demographics in the north as i'm sure there are more people from a nationalist background in the demographic you mentioned!!!

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I wonder would they rule that any player that has come through NI ranks cannot change allegiance to Ireland, as they are being poached?

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They wont do that, and I wouldnt want them to. This is purely about eligibility, not that they played for us.

Again, why should you be allowed to pick anyone from outside your national boundries?

Im not trying to make this political, but whether you agree with it or not, or recognise it or not,there are two countries on the island of Ireland. That is a fact.

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Originally Posted by Absinthe

Again, why should you be allowed to pick anyone from outside your national boundries?

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You can pick players outside of your national boundries.

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Who cares about Darren Gibson - he's a reserve at United and by the looks of it won't be getting anywhere near the first team - for a non mickey mouse cup match - anytime soon.

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it has damn all to do with Gibson as such. it appears he will continue to be eligible for the RoI anyway, the main issue is going on from here regarding eligibility of players born in the 6c.

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Doubt he'd even get on with NI either

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don't know about that! he is currently on loan at wolves. he would only have to be as good as their current crop of midfielders which includes superstars form the likes of:
Hull City
Barnsley
Notts Forest
Bristol City and
Luton Town

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Who cares about Darren Gibson - he's a reserve at United and by the looks of it won't be getting anywhere near the first team - for a non mickey mouse cup match - anytime soon.

Doubt he'd even get on with NI either

This should be one country but its not and never will be so get over it lads

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Whoosh.....