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Not too different Stutts from mine. I forgot to include a goalkeeper, Westwood would be my choice. Ardee, normally we are of the same opinion, but I disagree with you. I think with this bunch of players and a more positive, adventurous approach, we can do okay!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Aye but a long way between ''OK" and automatic qualification IMO.
Qualification is not that big of a target for a 24 team Euros, even Trap managed one Finals and nearly managed it another time. The big deal is to go to the Finals after scrapping it out with Poland and Scotland and do ourselves proud against the better teams.
Well Brazil lost 7-1 to Germany and we only lost 6-1 so comforting to know we are better than Brazil.
Our follow up 3-0 defeat shows what a strong side we have become.
We are that strong these days we will probably do just fine without a keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
One step at a time. It is a BIG target to qualify. We can worry about doing well against the big teams afterwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I agree. Qualification is the big target. Then we reboot and focus on the tournament proper.
I think some historic perspective is needed. I think we have deluded ourselves in some respects given how we had a good record getting out of groups.
Euro 88: some great performances but still "only" 4 points. 3rd in group.
WC90: two ok performances, one awful performance, two resolute / competitive performances. Nothing on a par with Hannover though. Two goals scored, both from opposition mistakes. No games won after 90 or 120 minutes.
WC94: one great performance, one ok and two muck. Two goals scored, one game in four won.
WC02: two decent (although the German appraisal has become a bit revisionist - Germany wasted a hatful of chances), one good and one really ballsy performance (Spain). We actually scored a few goals for a change.
Eur12: 3 defeats. One for, lots against. Caveat being it was a very hard group.
I'm not trying to revise downwards the appreciation of what went before, just trying to show that even in our heyday we found it hard to impress on the big stage. It's hard and this World Cup showed how the second-placed European teams struggled. Only France did well and they're not your typical European second seed.
Qualify, hope for a good draw, play well, get some luck and only then is progress beyond group stage feasible I reckon.
Agreed, just don't think we have the quality. or more importantly the commitment of the players.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Fair assessment of the past, the future is far more uncertain. For reasons see above and posts passim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
My money is on us missing out in the play-offs.
I hope you're wrong about the commitment. That would be the worst indictment of all.
We'll see about the quality. I'm not as downbeat as you are on that front but goals are a worry. I'd like to think we can at least go toe to toe with Scotland and Poland.
Look at the last 5 years or so, the number of pull-out/withdrawals is shocking. Hence some of the muppets who've appeared in a green shirt.
Yep, I agree to an extent but I don't think withdrawals of the likes of Reid, Dunne, Clark and some others are anything but genuine. I think the MON era might be different to the Trap era where a combination of bad attitude, bad communication policy and bad man management led to withdrawals. I think there is a core of enthusiastic and committed players. Some, like Stokes, don't convince me but then again, it's a clean slate and I suspect his injury was genuine in May.
The Wilson family wedding was a bit cr@p, as was Walters' holiday in Dubai, but then again they all came back for the US trip and there was no great value in them being there for the whole 4 games. I'll give the players and MON the benefit of the doubt here. I don't see Keane, whatever about MON, tolerating slackers, though I'd be inclined to guess Cobh nut job will be in the set up soon.
We can go toe to toe, but in Strachan i think they have a far better manager. He is very articulate and seems very good at motivating and organising players to the best of their ability and the team as a whole. He is the only one who really caught my attention during the world cup, and his analysis and thought process was far better than O'Neills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
There's that and the fact Scotland/Alba are playing like a team. Was very impressed with their approach to the game I went to. Not the greatest players, but looked very cohesive and generally acquitted themselves well within their (& WGS's) 'system'.
Regardless of what we think and our fanciful selections, do MO'N/RMK even know their strongest team? Not entirely their fault, but I doubt it. And even more so, unlikely this 'ideal' team have even ever played together...
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-30423366.html
Ireland to play U.S.A. in friendly this November.
Once upon a time it was a big target, now it's just a target which has been made a lot easier, it would be a big failure to miss this target.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Under this criteria we would have even qualified with Stan for Euro 2008, 7 qual groups, top 3 go through. Think about that one before claiming this to be a BIG target. :)
Only the best 3rd place team...play-offs for us at best.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016
Were you impressed by the Irish performance at the same venue a few days later? Probably the most like for like?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
In hindsight though, I'd almost have preferred if Monkeano had used a smaller group of players in early summer and used the 3 weeks to get ideas across. Although the tour probably ruled several players out of serious contention, a bit of foresight and conviction might have done this anyway.
Still, Oman, Georgia (not a gimme, I accept) and Gibraltar are still to be played before the first crunch games. By then we should be much further down the road.
Maybe I have to spell it out more clearly :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
In 2008 Euro qualifiers there were 7 groups, we finished a clear 3rd. That makes 21 teams, 2 hosts, and there would have been one play off (as there was in 1996) to find the last team. In a 24 team Euros in 2008, we would have qualified with Stan at the helm.
Nowadays, what Stan dismally managed to achieve has become a difficult big target.
My point is simple, qualification is just a target, not a big target not the be all and end all, but missing the target would be a big failure. Nevertheless, we could conceivably qualify for Euro 2016 and still retain most aspects of our current dysfunctions.
disaster as stans only campaign was we still managed 8 points at home against czech rep, germany, slovakia and wales. would very gladly take a similar return from our home matches against germany, poland, scotland and georgia this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir