Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

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Originally Posted by brine3

Stop being abrasive. I said it depends on the opposition. If you are playing the Faroe Islands you might play a more attacking passing football, if you are playing a top team then you might play a more defensive form of possession football, e.g. like Greece did in 2004.

But if you want to lose possession as quickly as possible and put your own team under pressure as quickly as possible, then hoofing it up the pitch is the way to go.

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Did you see Liverpool trying to "play football" against Southampton ? They almost gave 3 away and then conceded one. Tell me how we "play football" with John O'Shea and Richard Dunne in central defence. You have to have all your players comfortable, including your keeper, on the ball. We gave away 3 of the goals in Euro 2012 by losing possession in our own half. You have been fed on a diet of Barcelona, Spain and Real Madrid and think this can work for us. Almost every time we have to tried to play the ball out, the opposition put pressure on us and we got no where and back it went to Forde, Westwood or Given. Time and time again it has happened and not through any instructions Trapp gave. Only one Irish manager really tried this brand of football and it was Johnny Giles. I can still see Mick Martin falling over himself when the ball was passed to him in front of the Irish goal and giving the ball away and conceding a goal. Giles, with much better players than we have now, didn't succeed and the fans didn't like his brand of football and got on his back and he left, never having qualified us for anything.

For fear of repeating myself Trap's brand of football worked away from home. However, he seemed incapable of adjusting it for home games and therein lies his failing in my eyes. A man famed for his organised defences couldn't hold on to leads against Sweden and Austria and the group would have been different if he could.

As to who the next manager will be, the FAI's last two appointments have been surprises. So it might not be Martin O'Neill. I would be afraid if they delay too long they will lose their man for we're just about to go in to the silly season with sackings (and vacancies) not too far away.

Well, if our starting position is to assume we can't play football, then it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. That was pretty much the problem under Trap. James McCarthy is stroking the ball about the pitch for Wigan, then he plays for us and his legs turn to jelly.

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You have been fed on a diet of Barcelona, Spain and Real Madrid and think this can work for us.

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I addressed this straw man argument against me long ago. I actually cheer against Barcelona and Spain because I think they play too much tiki-taka and it gets in the way of playing football. I loved the Italian team at 2012 and was hoping they'd win in the final. Barcelona are stupid. They sold Yaya Toure and play Mascherano as a centre-back. They rightly and deservedly got tonked by Bayern Munich last season.

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Only one Irish manager really tried this brand of football and it was Johnny Giles. I can still see Mick Martin falling over himself when the ball was passed to him in front of the Irish goal and giving the ball away and conceding a goal.

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Like I said earlier, we outdid Germany and Spain in possession in our matches against them at the World Cup. Without Roy Keane. This is quite an achievement. In my opinion our 2002 team was our best ever. Who knows what would have happened if there had been no Saipan bustup. Look at the route Germany took to the final...

The Germany game in Ibaraki was on ESPN a few months ago. To say we played good football is complete revisionism, and to be honest I was surprised because I thought we played well. We did in the first half but we were utterly hapless at the back at times in the second half and apart from giving it to Duff or hoofing it long we showed nothing in the second.

That game could very easily have been 3-0 Germany and our first decent effort on goal in the second half was a Keane effort saved by Kahn on around 88 mins.

I'm kind of with you though. I don't think you're advocating pretty footy just for the sake of it. My point is that the game that Trap has resorted too in the last 18 months just doesn't work for us but that some degree of composed football combined with huff and puff would suit us better. Stockholm was a good example. We played really well out there. Cynics would say we had no shots on goal, but we were a sloppy finish or a sloppy final ball away from beating them, and deservedly so.

Is there anyone here who doesn't believe that that type of performance would serve us better than hoofball to Sammon, or Walters? Is there anyone here who doesn't believe that just one of Gibson or Hoolahan would probably make us play better and make results more likely?

We do have it in our toolkit to get results - enough to get playoff places - with the current players available to us. We need to trust them to play and not fear the occasional mistake.

Another Italian manager is a possibility now... What are the odds on mad Paolo getting the gig?

Paul O'Dicanneogh?

Yes, I was at the match in Stockholm and that was a fairly decent performance. I felt we could have nicked that one if Hoolahan had been on earlier, and perhaps if Walters was up front for a while. We were fairly lucky that Zlatan had an off-day, though.

Shame that Trap mucked everything against Austria with his mad substitutions that basically let the Austrians run riot for the final part of the match. Hoof the ball up to Conor Sammon. Ball comes straight back to our end 10 seconds later. Rinse and repeat.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Geysir, you brought his name up:rolleyes: (I might have mentioned him, among with other managers, about 5/6 years ago, but its great that you crawled back on my old posts). I guess he isnt working now as he is quite old.
We cant say how he would have done for Ireland because that never happened. Unlike Trap which happened.
So anymore 5/6 year old posts you care to bring up! That's desperate!

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Eh Benno, it's quite germane who you thought would be good for us instead of Trap, during Trap's early years, especially when you trumpet just how smart you were all the time and sneer (in most every post) at every other Irish fan.
The manager of your choice for the Irish job, turned out to be the biggest failure in the history of Polish football.
Maybe Benno, just offer your opinions without assuming you're something special and everybody else is just a dumb member of the sheep flock.
and btw, ole for Leo too ;) and thank fxk he wasn't our manager.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Eh Benno, it's quite germane who you thought would be good for us instead of Trap, during Trap's early years, especially when you trumpet just how smart you were all the time and sneer (in most every post) at every other Irish fan.
The manager of your choice for the Irish job, turned out to be the biggest failure in the history of Polish football.
Maybe Benno, just offer your opinions without assuming you're something special and everybody else is just a dumb member of the sheep flock.
and btw, ole for Leo too ;) and thank fxk he wasn't our manager.

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5 years ago Geysir!!!! Funny how he was given some big reward in Poland on behalf of the Polish people as well for his good work with poland in the euros, our Leo.
One bad campaign one good. Hardly the worst job ever in football, probably taking it easy now on a beach somewhere in Dubai, and one of a few managers I talked about 5 years ago (Otto Rehhagel, Roy Hodgson)
I didnt mention him this time, big deal, he is ancient anyway. Who did you suggest 5 years ago, I couldn't be bothered to trawl back in time. Might be a better idea to actual show my old posts when talking about them!
Thats a "what if" anyway.
Trap was a reality. We are not going to the World Cup. Enjoy that.
Bit of a difference.

This time i think MON is the best candidate -maybe not the most exciting football but a great man manager, what you think?

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Originally Posted by brine3

In the 2012 qualifiers the team player poorer than the 2010 qualifiers, but scraped through nonetheless.

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4 pts ahead of 3rd in our group and a 5-1 play-off win would suggest otherwise

Ha ha.
This thread is desperate at this stage...

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

4 pts ahead of 3rd in our group and a 5-1 play-off win would suggest otherwise

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Well that's it then, why bother watching the matches at all, we can just follow the team on teletext.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Eh Benno, it's quite germane who you thought would be good for us instead of Trap, during Trap's early years, especially when you trumpet just how smart you were all the time and sneer (in most every post) at every other Irish fan.
The manager of your choice for the Irish job, turned out to be the biggest failure in the history of Polish football.
Maybe Benno, just offer your opinions without assuming you're something special and everybody else is just a dumb member of the sheep flock.
and btw, ole for Leo too ;) and thank fxk he wasn't our manager.

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That's a bit rough on Beenhakker.

You could also argue that we appointed one of the biggest management failures in the history of the Italian national team. With all that talent at his disposal, the only teams he managed to beat in two finals were Bulgaria and Ecuador.

Lads off topic but did anyone hear Philly McMahon mention how the shamrock rovers lads would be slagging him cos the dubs players getting cramp towards the end of the match and he is strength and conditioning coach.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Yes, I was at the match in Stockholm and that was a fairly decent performance. I felt we could have nicked that one if Hoolahan had been on earlier, and perhaps if Walters was up front for a while. We were fairly lucky that Zlatan had an off-day, though.

Shame that Trap mucked everything against Austria with his mad substitutions that basically let the Austrians run riot for the final part of the match. Hoof the ball up to Conor Sammon. Ball comes straight back to our end 10 seconds later. Rinse and repeat.

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sounds like your posts here for the last few weeks

Ha ha, see above. ^^^

Ha Ha, Rinse and Repeat. see above ^^^

There is a middle ground between aimless hoofs and tika-taka. And it doesn't make much sense to argue about how we conceded goals in the Euro finals, so we won't be able to pass the ball.

The fact that the combination of players and tactics used in Poland saw us concede goals against quality opposition at the Euros does not mean that we can not find a combination of players and tactics that will allow us to keep the ball better.

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Originally Posted by brine3

That's a bit rough on Beenhakker.

You could also argue that we appointed one of the biggest management failures in the history of the Italian national team. With all that talent at his disposal, the only teams he managed to beat in two finals were Bulgaria and Ecuador.

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Aw shucks, is that a bit rough on Beenhakker? the worst flop in Polish football history and worst performing manager in the Euro 2010 qualifiers.

Suffice to say it won't be Leo! Or any other senile Dutchman...

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

5 years ago Geysir!!!! Funny how he was given some big reward in Poland on behalf of the Polish people as well for his good work with poland in the euros, our Leo.
One bad campaign one good. Hardly the worst job ever in football, probably taking it easy now on a beach somewhere in Dubai, and one of a few managers I talked about 5 years ago (Otto Rehhagel, Roy Hodgson)
I didnt mention him this time, big deal, he is ancient anyway. Who did you suggest 5 years ago, I couldn't be bothered to trawl back in time. Might be a better idea to actual show my old posts when talking about them!
Thats a "what if" anyway.
Trap was a reality. We are not going to the World Cup. Enjoy that.
Bit of a difference.

This time i think MON is the best candidate -maybe not the most exciting football but a great man manager, what you think?

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I repeat, because it appears to have gone way over your head. When somebody here takes the píss out of other posters for 5 years for perceived sheep like activity, then boasts about their own football acumen for 5 years, then it's quite germane to see who they fancied 5 years ago for the irish job, instead of Trap. And that fancy you had 5 years ago, turned out to be the biggest failure in Polish qualification history and the biggest flop of 2010 qualifiers.
Take it on the chin Benno, instead of squealing and searching the bottom of the barrel for excuses.

I don't know who are the other candidates to MON, I think the FAI should wait on this appointment and not just appoint the first one in the first queue. If MON got the job, I don't know how he would do, appointing an intl manager is a guess, Croatia appointing Bilic was a gamble, the Belgian manager was a gamble etc. The proof is ion the pudding.